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Assuming Clinton/Obama vs. McCain/Giuliani in Nov...

gretavo's picture
Submitted by gretavo on Sun, 2008-02-10 06:33.
Paul/McKinney
9% (1 vote)
Paul/Nader
0% (0 votes)
Nader/Sheehan
0% (0 votes)
McKinney/Sheehan
0% (0 votes)
Paul/Gravel
27% (3 votes)
McKinney/Gravel
18% (2 votes)
Gravel/McKinney
45% (5 votes)
Paul/Kucinich
0% (0 votes)
Kucinich/McKinney
0% (0 votes)
McKinney/Kucinich
0% (0 votes)
Gravel/Kucinich
0% (0 votes)
Kucinich/Gravel
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 11
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Tahooey's picture

i don't get it

Submitted by Tahooey on Sun, 2008-02-10 18:37.

how come no Kucinich - is he that bad?

Ron Paul made the list and one of his top objectives is to overturn Roe v Wade.  IMO it's smart how he keeps that off the front page, but read his positions..

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dicktater's picture

Heresay

Submitted by dicktater on Sun, 2008-02-10 19:04.

"Before the Nevada primary, [Presidential candidate] Dennis [Kucinich] was visited by representatives of Nancy Pelosi and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee — AIPAC. They told Dennis that if he would drop his campaigns to impeach Cheney and Bush, they would guarantee his re-election to the House of Representatives.
Kucinich threw them out of his office."

http://www.impeachthem.com/?q=node/1736

Maybe Kooky should just be working hard on getting his House seat in order.

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Tahooey's picture

maybe but i still don't get it

Submitted by Tahooey on Sun, 2008-02-10 19:44.

kooky?  what's kooky.  seeing an unidentified flying object?  or thinking there might be some decency in politics.  or is that just what they call him now?

i still don't get it.. guess i'm just kooky too,  because i still like kucinich.  at least he's willing to stand up and say impeach.

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dicktater's picture

Not a fan

Submitted by dicktater on Sun, 2008-02-10 20:42.

To me, he's kooky and scary. Introducing legislation banning possession of handguns by Americans (who aren't federalized police) by someone who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, put him on my shit list.

My UNALIENABLE Right to defend myself, which is not always possible with words, pens, fists, sticks, stones, or long guns, is not negotiable and can't be bought with (empty) promises of impeachment or 9/11 investigations.



Innocents Betrayed Trailer (1:18)
JPFO - Jews For the Preservation of Firearms Ownership


Innocents Betrayed : Calculated Genocide (4:41)


Why must all decent non-violent people fight against "gun control"?
Why is the right to keep and bear arms truly a fundamental individual
right? You can find the answers in this new book.

People frequently ask why we are so dedicated to our cause? This
book answers that question by collecting the key facts and arguments
in one place.

People have asked us to present the whole JPFO argument in one
place. We have done it. Available now in an easy-reading format
and a handy size, the new book is entitled Death by Gun Control:
The Human Cost of Victim Disarmament.
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

The message is simple: Disarmed people are neither free nor safe
- they become the criminals' prey and the tyrants' playthings. When
the civilians are defenseless and their government goes bad, however,
thousands and millions of innocents die.

Professor R.J. Rummel, author of the monumental book Death by
Government, said: "Concentrated political power is the most
dangerous thing on earth." For power to concentrate and become dangerous,
the citizens must be disarmed.

What disarms the citizens? The idea of "gun control." It's the
idea that only the government has the right to possess firearms,
and that citizens have no unalienable right to use force to defend
against aggression.

Death by Gun Control carefully examines the "gun control"
idea: its meaning, its purposes, its effects. It comes in many forms,
but in every form it enables the evildoers and works against righteous
defense.

The Mother of All Stats


The Human Cost of "Gun Control" Ideas

Government Dates Targets Civiliams
Killed		   "Gun Control" Laws    Features of Over-all "Gun Control" scheme 
Ottoman
Turkey		 1915-1917 Armenians

(mostly Christians)		 1-1.5
million		 Art.
166, Pen. Code, 1866

& 1911 Proclamation, 1915		 •
Permits required •Government list of owners

•Ban on possession
Soviet
Union		 1929-1945 Political
opponents;

farming communities		 20
million		 Resolutions,
1918

Decree, July 12, 1920

Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926		 •Licensing
of owners

•Ban on possession

•Severe penalties
Nazi
Germany

& Occupied Europe		 1933-1945 Political
opponents;

Jews; Gypsies;

critics; "examples"		 20
million		 Law
on Firearms & Ammun., 1928

Weapon Law, March 18, 1938

Regulations against Jews, 1938		 •Registration
& Licensing

•Stricter handgun laws

•Ban on possession
China,
Nationalist		 1927-1949 Political
opponents;

army conscripts; others		 10
million		 Art.
205, Crim. Code, 1914

Art. 186-87, Crim. Code, 1935		 •Government
permit system

•Ban on private ownership
China,
Red		 1949-1952

1957-1960

1966-1976		 Political
opponents;

Rural populations

Enemies of the state		 20-35
million		 Act
of Feb. 20, 1951

Act of Oct. 22, 1957		 •Prison
or death to "counter-revolutionary criminals" and anyone resisting
any government program

•Death penalty for supply guns to such "criminals"
Guatemala 1960-1981 Mayans
& other Indians;

political enemies		 100,000-

200,000		 Decree
36, Nov 25 •Act of 1932

Decree 386, 1947

Decree 283, 1964		 •Register
guns & owners •Licensing with high fees

•Prohibit carrying guns

•Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers
Uganda 1971-1979 Christians

Political enemies		 300,000 Firearms
Ordinance, 1955

Firearms Act, 1970		 •Register
all guns & owners •Licenses for transactions

•Warrantless searches •Confiscation powers
Cambodia

(Khmer Rouge)		 1975-1979 Educated
Persons;

Political enemies		 2
million		 Art.
322-328, Penal Code

Royal Ordinance 55, 1938		 •Licenses
for guns, owners, ammunition & transactions

•Photo ID with fingerprints •License inspected quarterly
Rwanda 1994 Tutsi
people		 800,000 Decree-Law
No. 12, 1979		 •Register
guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify

need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers
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gretavo's picture

i don't buy it

Submitted by gretavo on Sun, 2008-02-10 21:16.

I'm not against gun ownership per se but I think gun advocates need to stop raising the spectre of needing your guns to fight the government if that became necessary. It is a silly position from which to argue against gun control because it makes them look like paranoid and trigger-happy malcontents. No matter what doomshillers extraordinaire like Alex Jones say, Martial Law is NOT coming soon.

Many responsible people find that knowing how to use a gun and keeping one at the ready is a prudent safeguard, and it may well be against potential intruders to one's home. But if a government can convince an army to turn on its own people there is little chance any armed resistance would ever succeed in anything save perhaps creating a convenient "resistance" boogeyman to keep around like "al Qaeda".

Infowars do not end in martial law like real wars. The infowar is not in fact a war like the war against terror--infowarring is just one way of defining what has always existed as the struggle of cultures to survive and thrive in the context of coexistence and exchange with other cultures where overt military action has been impossible or not advisable.

Those waging infowar against the world by perpetuating the 9/11 islamofascist myth are not able to overtly direct the military to establish control over any population at home or overseas, which is why they find it necessary to perpetuate myths that enable them to achieve the same effect. One of those myths is the islamofascist itself and another is the myth of the perpetually impending police state.

The 9/11 Truth movement should not really have a dog in the "gun control wars" and probably wouldn't were it not for Alex Jones. Mixing the issues sends the wrong message to people in a way that could be very counterproductive, in my view.

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kate of the kiosk's picture

lots of food for thought there

Submitted by kate of the kiosk on Mon, 2008-02-11 04:27.

i am so torn between

you know, braun vs. brain comes into play with all of this, Gretavo.

or braun plus brain (when i think of alex)

anarchism vs. liberterianism...what alex is doing is appealing to the libertarian, adamantly preservationist constitutionalist, pro-gun mindset. the opposite, well, anarchistic, adamantly freedom preservationist, nonviolence mindset.  one is more "born-again", faith-based, and the other more humanistic, atheistic.  as 911 truth activists, i believe we have to come to grips with this dichotomy in extremes...how to do?

 

 

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Tahooey's picture

to quote the immortal lynyrd skynyrd

Submitted by Tahooey on Mon, 2008-02-11 00:08.


Hand guns are made for killing
They ain't no good for nothing else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself


So why don't we dump them people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some old fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

 

hell, get a taser dude!
u need something mid range? i think blow darts are still legal and quite lethal. if you've never tried one, watch your teeth on the inhale.

i'm all for guns, but i'm just sayin ... the way i interpret the 2nd amendment literally is that if the government can have nuclear warheads, american citizens can have nuclear warheads too. i don't think either should have them, but that's another issue.

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