Looking Forward - Truth and Reconciliation Efforts
I had an interesting exchange last night with a local volunteer in the impeachment effort. We discussed the issue of 9/11 and how things might play out. It occured to me in light of the effort to impeach that the truth is arguably more important than achieving justice in terms of exacting punishments on everyone involved in the crime and cover-up.
What I mean is that one reason getting people to accept the truth is hard is that one naturally imagines some pretty awful consequences and fallout occuring as a result of mass awareness. This has been discussed recently in terms of what Israeli involvement might mean for Jewish people's safety and/or sense of security much as the OCT has caused unnecessary misery for many arabs and muslims.
I think it's important also to make an effort to reassure the world that above all we value the truth and that as truthseekers we are NOT interested in revenge of any kind against the perpetrators and their accomplices of varying degrees of involvement. Depending on any given person's degree of involvement, I think that I at least have come to the conclusion that long jail sentences are as harsh a punishment as we should be advocating for. There are those who do not, like me, object to the death penalty in principle and I am not saying that those people are evil, just that my own moral code does not support it and moreover the cause of truth may benefit from a position that clearly stresses the value of truth and justice over any notion of revenge.
The more people who feel that they have a great deal to lose (if for example minor roles in the coverup are treated as accessories to murder) the harder it will be to move forward with the necessary actions, both logistically, and for many, psychologically.
Does anyone have thoughts on this? Do people agree that we should begin looking forward and laying the groundwork for a responsible and peaceful, and positive dénoument of the situation? Please share your thoughts in comments!
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OT special thanks to bruce
for the spiffy new logo. i thought it looked cool enough but i JUST realized that in the negative space of the letters i T i is a silhouette of the towers--note the antenna of the north tower on the left. brilliant, bruce! i feel like an idiot for JUST noticing that!
Yeah, it rocks
I noticed the thing about the towers but I did have to do a double-take.
T-shirt t-shirt t-shirt t-shirtÂ
You're welcome folks
I really love tinkering with logos, so it was my pleasure. Oh, and gretavo: I emailed you a cropped version that will fit in better, give it a try.
Hey cass, a T-shirt would be great -- as long as it isn't black!
PS:Â Hooray, today my german translation of "money as debt" hit 50k. Eat your heart out, MSM.
Sometimes, good guys don't wear black
[quote=bruce1337]
Hey cass, a T-shirt would be great -- as long as it isn't black![/quote]
Agreed.  A color that contrasts with that worn by jack-booted thugs masquerading a peace officers would make it easier to differentiate when the green light is given by government "officials" to ultraviolently attack Americans exercising their fundamental Right of dissent  (coming to a protest near you soon?).
[quote]PS:Â Hooray, today my german translation of "money as debt" hit 50k. Eat your heart out, MSM.[/quote]
Wow! 50k! Congratulations!Â
-- "But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7." ~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)
Hm...
I have an inkling you might've taken this the wrong way :|
One last touch
in the CSS, under "#logo img", change "padding 0pt 1em" to "padding 1pt 1em" and it will be perfect!
Hey bruce
Could you send me a version that would be suitable for a t-shirt?
And I'm sorry, I don't get it about the ban on black tee-shirts. I feel like I'm missing something.  Â
i think the ban...
is just someone's idea that we don't want to look like a cult given that most other 9/11 truth shirts are black... but really, what IS the new black if not, well, black?
Yes, I will
About the color: gretavo got it right!
trying this again
and the back would read:
DIE, LIHOP LIMITED HANGOUT MOTHERF****ERS!!
just kidding.
I want one!
.
me too!
... should we cafe press it?
me, three!
great work, bruce and gretav
Cafe press
appears to be cheaper than spreadshirt -- but I will NOT wear navy blue ;)
Then make a proposal!
I won't wear pink, btw.
Well, if I can't have black...
I like charcoal gray.
Could you do a .png with the same blue background as the aquamarine file?
I like gray
sure I can, but why would you want it?
I thought it would look nice
on a white tee shirt. Also, I'd like a coffee mug and a dog sweater, and they only come in white.
At first
strange images of a printing process involving the intricate placing of napkins and of course lots of coffee sprang to my mind -- but then, I consulted our human hive mind, teh google. Seems like a good idea!
t-shirt
i need a long-sleeved dogger printed up. no neon or faux turtle neck shit please.Â
long sleeved dogger?
do i want to know? oh btw cass i think i know where you can get different color dog sweaters with matching coffee mugs and--wait a second... are you havin' a laugh? is she havin'a laugh?! anyone else a fan of Extras?
ricky gervais
css edit no worky...
i confused...
I am to liking
the "recent comments" block above the fold, above "recent blog posts."Â Why you move it?
i was to thinking
that since i wanted toi make some posts stick that it was nice to have recent blog posts more visible than recent comments which are usually silly anyway... :)  i'd suggest a poll to decide but i want to find out about sibel's TG plans first. :)
Comments are silly?!
WTF are you talking about?
I'll have you know, comments are SERIOUS BUSINESS. Do you remember that flame war over at the blogger, just about exactly a year ago, in which Jess threatened to "take things to the next level" with you? I'm writing a fifteen page term paper for Discourse Analysis on those comments, bub. Comments are some serious academic shit.
I wrote a paper for this same class a couple weeks ago analyzing SANE's press release regarding their "Mapping Shari'a" project. It was well received.
Anyway, I'll deal. You have a point.
i cheated but...
i think i fixed it... yes? nice and centered now?Â
It's about the fine line
between the header and content -- if you look closely, it doesn't show where the logo is.
Can you explain what doesn't work when trying to edit the css?
there is a fine line
between the header and the content? I don't see it, beneath the logo or otherwise. when I open the css I see this:
#logo img {
 float: left;
 padding: 1em 1.0em 1em 1em;
 border: 0;
}
#menu {
 padding: 0.5em 0.5em 0 0.5em;
 text-align: right;
 vertical-align: middle;
This is after changing a 0 to a 1 in the logo img padding (and seeing nothing change). this is from style.css in the bluemarine theme which is what is set as the default--maybe tehre is a hidden css somewhere?
what i ended up doing is editing the logo image itself (thinking that you meant it should just be higher up per se, not that it was blocking a fine line, which i still don't see anywhere! Is it like the plane at the Pentagon? :)
Here
this is what I'm talking about:
 I have a firefox extension named "firebug" which shows html/css properties, and it says:
hmmm
I use Internet Exploder and the line doesn't show up as in your image... i have no prob granting you server access but don't have time at the mo. I'll look into things once the TG break begins tonight!
omg
Why would you use IE? Using IE is essentially the cyberspace equivalent to the general political apathy we're fighting against! Make a change!
http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/Â
...
probably just a cache issue? as is often the case with css....
have you tried a 'force reload' bruce?
yes, but no luck.
anyone using Firefox not seeing the line-bug?
verified bruce
checked the site on my brother's laptop (he loved your logo btw) and that line does appear, and does get blocked by the logo image quite obviously. little things like that are why i still use IE instead of firefox, which i know is petty of me. let me see about giving you access to the server and letting you play around until it works...
I would say that I am basically against capital punishment...
Occasionally I hear about some crime that makes me feel that either *I* would be willing to kill the person or that a family member of the victim should be allowed to do so.
I just can't get into that frame of mind for the 9/11 perps. Just stick 'em (the high level ones) in SuperMax until they die of natural causes. Give the lower level ones deals for telling what they know, and then give them their own shows on FOX.
give them shows on FOX
that's pretty funny, Cass. Gretavo - great thinking, as always, very higher- ground stuff. hope you don't mind the expression, but God bless you and yours. I had just started thinking about the enormity of the daunting task before us. the perpetrators are not going to give up without a fight although some may just crawl into a hole or crevice. Hey Saddam did! there are legals already working on nailing these people, are there not? like the AIPAC trial - i have to read up on that still. we really have to support any who are and would. oh Haaarvard...is there anybody out there..?
and what to do with the MSMers.Â
nuremburg/seeding and feeding
i don't know, seems there have been and will be millions if not billions of aggrieved who are entitled to a say....in the meantime, we have to keep preaching, seeding and feeding the mindshift.
Ken Jenkins
I recall Ken Jenkins wrote a great article, seems it was in the '04 area, but he was reminding of the desireability of 911 truth coming out gradually, rather that like an avalanche. The implications for peoples phyches, and the profound implications about the legitimacy of the gummit, the econ, etc; there was something "best" about people waking up slowly over time.
Couldn't find the article above, but did find this old 18 minute video of Jenkins from '04,
PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF 9-11: KEN JENKINS, 9-11 inquiry activist, psychologist, videographer and an organizer of the Intl. Inquiry into 9-11 (San Francisco, phase one, March 26-28, 2004), Jenkins discusses the importance of understanding 9-11, 9-11 as psychological warfare, counter-productive pessimism (panic vs. a sense of urgency), the silence of the left, a visit to the nightmare time, and finding a sense of hope. (18 minutes-5 megs)
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2004/04/103718.wmv
OT: Spain rescinds Holocaust Denial Law
Spain rescinds HolocaustTM Denial Law
In german:
http://www.welt.de/politik/article1347460/Holocaust-Leugnung_nicht_mehr_...
Foreign press:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922334.html
http://www.ejpress.org/article/21754
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=183825...
http://www.ejpress.org/article/21780
Anyone find anything in the anglo/'murkan press?
3rd world perspective
If you live in a third world country, you quickly realize that people in power can have such a hold on their position, they sometimes don't give much thought what the people think. Truth alone is somehow impotent against ruthless power. There is no satisfaction without a measure of justice.
I do not really have a say on how you wish to treat the criminal psycopaths from among your elite. I respect that each state has it's own laws and regulations regarding punishment. I just wish that for the sake of the third world which frequently suffers the greatest casualties from the military and covert political misadventres of the US, that the cycle of violence and exploitation of other countries is broken. I do hope you break the back of this corrupt group and that you keep them away from power for good.
Wiithin the short span of Bush's presidency, half a million Iraquis have died. Whatever laws you have for these criminals, I hope you apply them wisely, not just for those who have already died but for those more who will die if you fail.
yes, juandelacruz
the 3rd-world perspective needs to be heard, especially the Palestinian, Afghani, and Iraqi perspectives! thank you for posting! from the Philippines, correct? kate
yup, from the Philippines
yup Kate, from the Philippines
Just a thought, but do you guys think it's best to apply current laws on the perps? Do you think the whole system of laws are no longer working and need to be replaced? I am hoping that current US laws can be applied, otherwise it will be a very very long time before any proper "sentences" can be meted out (justice for 9-11, if handed out 40 years from now means squat).
A second thought, I would understand if you guys have serious doubts about the applicability of US laws, afterall, the law is assumed to be enforced within a working justice and political system - since the whole system has been corrupted or gamed, proper enforcement is no longer guaranteed. Due to this less than ideal circumstance, I am hoping that the case and the perps can be submitted to an international court for trial. This would also address the international nature of the conspiracy and as well the victims coming from different countries. Since reworking your entire political system may take time, and people are dying as we blog, an international court may go about the trial without having to wait for US politics to be rewired.
 Lastly, I hope no one will be prematurely recomending pardons at this point. Not wanting to be a thought nazi but what's to encourage the perps to stop if there is to be no consequence to doing what they do.
if only the International Court
could and would be strong enough to mete out justice and punishment. And, unfortunately, our national state system does need to be rewired. with all the changes to law and modifications to constitution, and the powerful people in place to protect the perpetrators (Mukasey!) this is going to be extremely tough-going. i have limited knowledge of the law - am a medical transcriptionist by profession,  so not my thing. hopefully you will hear back from others more informed on this subject.
The international court...it just has to be a part of this, i would think, unless that, too, has been infiltrated and corrupted.
Hi Kate, I dont know
Hi Kate,
I dont know anything about the law either. I studied economics.Â
But frankly, the US system has failed. I do believe Americans are good in general, but the perps know how to get into and stay in power within the US political, economic and justice system.
I don't know if the international court system is any better, I have my doubts as well but at least not the near certainty that you won't find justice in the current US system.
regarding justice and culpability
Hi Juan, I appreciate your candor. I absolutely agree that the US, its government and people have failed up to this point in stopping the aggression commited in their name. I have to allow though for the massive efforts at thought control to which we have been subjected. Also to point out that the US has been aided and abetted by every other country whose government did not immediately sanction the US for its illegal invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. One can argue that other countries are cowed by American power, but then so are America's own citizens. In fact I think that the problem is not so much America or Americans as it is the embryonic global government run, in effect, by powerful individuals and corporations that do not by any means all call America home. If 9/11 truth has made me realize anything it is that national sovereignty is now and has always been conditional and subject to the whims of those with the power to make war, to make and break nations. Nothing will be gained with the toppling of America from its supposed perch atop the world because that just means that the real wielders of power will have changed their m.o.
Therefore I have come to the conclusion that what the world needs from 9/11 truth is to come to understand the way power is wielded by dividing and conquering, and by the wielding of private power and control under the guise of public service. We need to learn how we have been deceived and how to prevent being deceived in the future. It's more important to learn these lessons, ultimately, than to fixate on punishing the guilty. This doesn't mean the guilty should not be penalized and ehld accountable, this just means thatw e shouldn't lose sight of what is truly most important and also try to figure out how we can best achieve our goals, if need be by taking into account the public's perception of our motives.
Hi RT, Â regarding:Â
Hi RT,
 regarding: "...The more people who feel that they have a great deal to lose (if for
example minor roles in the coverup are treated as accessories to
murder) the harder it will be to move forward with the necessary
actions, both logistically, and for many, psychologically..."
just my op: If the person who did the "coverup" knew 9-11 was an inside job, then took money to deceive people on purpose, I would say he is an accessory to mass murder. We can only call a spade, a spade. I suppose there is an applicable sentence under the law for accesories to mass murder. If the perp cooperates, then perhaps the sentence can be reduced. It will be difficult I suppose to unearth the truth, but it would be useless to investigate the facts if we corrupt the ideals of the investigation before it is even begun.
Wiesenthal 911 blogger
I know this is off topic but at 911 blogger they took off all the blogs about the Wiesenthal Center Conflates 9/11 Truth Sites With Jihadist Sites does anyone have answer to that thank you gir
My opinion about punishment, the family should decide not this corrupt judicial system
It's still there
http://911blogger.com/node/12505
Justice or Revenge?
There is no Justice in revenge. No satisfaction comes from revenge.
Revenge and violence -- committing the same act as the other -- keep us locked in a never-ending loop. In contrast the rule of law as applied through the courts opens the doors to progress out of a mind-set that does not bring satisfaction nor heal dis_ease.
How "satisfied" could anyone feel when over a million Iraqis and unknown numbers of Afghanis have died? Does anyone consider that Just or Fair? No! Moreover neither had anything to do with 911.
Terrorism is an ends to a means. Usually political in nature, it is considered an unconventional method to fight against oppression. Using modern, fiercer "conventional" weapons uses the same means but the ends differ. The former is an attempt to escape oppression in contrast mostly <>the opposite applies to the latter. <> What is the difference between a bomb dropped from the air and one strapped to a body? They both kill civilians.
Only an independent investigation can truly answer whether Israeli Zionists were responsible. The courts need to decide their fate if that is the case. Nothing else will suffice. The death penalty ought not be an option. Where do we draw the line: killing a person for killing another person makes no sense.
I've long believed that our government knew and it's likely they may have had a hand in the events that day. The notion that American citizens are not allowed to ask questions about the numerous anomalies that day -- it is just conspiracy talk -- has no basis in reality.
The search for truth is an endeavour every American ought to support. Too many questions remain unanswered from that day. It is vital for the nation to understand what happened that day and why, otherwise America has no value. Uncovering the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth will set us free.
Much has been hidden from American people. The public has been denied knowledge about America's dark history. If it is ever disclosed Americans would be shocked. More importantly it would empower the people. Thus American hubris would be replaced with a humble, but more sophisticated understanding of the world community. At that point the desire for revenge might end giving Justice reign.
If humans practiced the doctrine "An eye for an eye" as Ghandi said, "the whole world would be blind."
Justice and Truth are the only means to a justifiable end.
serena1313
“Revenge at first
“Revenge at first though sweet,
Bitter ere long back on it self recoils.â€
- Milton, [Paradise Lost, 1667]
Great blog RT, though I suspect if this thing ever breaks it will be difficult to prevent a long chain of state executions. I didn't cry any tears when Ted Bundy got his 1.21 gigawats and turned into a human pork roast nor would I care if some neocon suffered the same fate; the problem is that state executions are precisely the kind of thing some of us are trying to eliminate.
I'm very interested in the topic of Native American justice. Unfortunately it requires real, functioning communities to work properly, and we're about as far away from that sort of thing as humanly possible.
Amnesty for American military officers
THIS IS a cross posted comment from "On the Trail of Men" relevant to this thread.
----
Fantastic research. I was having a conversation with Gretavo and I think we agreed the question now becomes how do people deal with the monstrous implications of this? I think most people, even if deep down they are convinced, could not deal with the enormity of an entire government this evil. But a limited cabal of criminal psychopaths here and abroad I can wrap my mind around. That can be excised. Other countries have gone through their velvet revolutions and lived on.
It is entirely appropriate that the author of "On the Trail of Men" focuses on the Zionist connection by repeatedly challenging the conflation of Zionism and Judaism. I am now aware of many anti-Zionist Jews and rabbis who are vocal in insisting that Zionism is the biggest oppressor of their people. These rabbis say that their religion strictly instructs Jews not to fight "the nations" on a national level, and that this shows a lack of faith in the G-d who watches over the Chosen People. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm
If more Americans were aware of the existence of these groups (entering the keywords anti-zionist jews will get you a whole page of them) then that would throw a monkey wrench in the media's equation of anti-Zionism with anti-semitic. Reading about these brave, peace-loving rabbis almost makes me want to convert to Judaism: their kind. Let's link them perhaps, with their permission?
The idea Gretavo and I were discussing, I think ( I was a little buzzed) was, in the spirit of reconciliation rather them revenge, declaring amnesty for military officers privy to details of the stand-down, the Pentagon operation, and other military-technical details. Without this they'll undoubtedly not come forward since, if the Truth Movement really got going, they would expect to be the ones scapegoated in inverse proportion to their rank. I think a broad amnesty for all but the highest criminal psychopaths would be best. How about an amnesty for congress unless directly involved? That's who really needs to open the new commission, and the whitewashed report now makes them complicit. Can the 911 Truth groups gather around a joint amnesty proposal? That might rock the truth movement landscape and soften the conspiracy theory image.
I'm in awe of the brave patriots not letting go of this, and growing by the day, seeing this makes me feel, for the first time, that our country has not lost its essential character and we will make it through this. Some of us may die if there is a last gasp lashing-out by the cabal, but that is inconsequential. What's important is that democracy will survive, and the republic, for another generation at least, will be innoculated against the politics of fear, ignorance, and manipulation that made this monstrous deed and the cover-up possible.
I would like to see Israel become a non-secular state in which both Jews and Arabs are welcome.
9/11 Truth Joint Amnesty Proposal
Unnamed friend of Gretavo,
all of your plans are excellent with regards to the Amnesty offers and your support for the establishment of a moral, non-violent, law-abiding and secular Levantine state. “Mr. Olmert, TAKE DOWN THIS WALL!†Committing anti-Semitic genocide against the Arab and Muslim peoples via U.S. proxy in order to bring about a myth-driven dream such as ‘Eretz Yisrael’ and a ‘Middle Eastern Empire’ and ‘Jewish Kingdom’ is a good example of “gaining the whole world, yet losing your very soul in the process.â€
Thanks for your comments, and I still believe that when the awakening finally comes, and it is happening now, Americans will stand up and defend their country against the scum who have tricked them into ignorance while robbing their families, and turning a great and moral nation into a whorehouse and military supply depot for Israel.
Shill Douglass Channeling WTCDEMOLITION.COM
And get this--he was an "alter boy"! Either Bill the Shill has been reading a little too much of New York Times Bestselling Author Steve "monsterous backpeddler" Alten, or he is even more formerly catholic than me. Hell, I can still spell eucharist... Anyway, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and all that. Thanks Bill. And, you're welcome!Â
January 12, 2008 at 09:23:44
How to Out 9/11 Truth -- The Key to 9/11 Truth is Forgiveness – Jesus Had a POINT!!
By Bill Douglas
I’m not a bible thumper in the sense of the false prophets who claim to be Christians. However, I’ve always considered myself a Christian.
I went to Bible school, Sunday school, was an alter boy, etc.
However, I don’t worship Jesus. I don’t think he wanted us to. I believe he wanted us to simply LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID!
The two main points Jesus made were:
1)Â Â Â Â Â Truth is all important
2)Â Â Â Â Â Forgiveness is the key
 Â
Americans, and particularly the 9/11 truth movement should adopt these two principles. We got the first one down, but the second one will further our goals for truth.
After apartheid, the South African black government instituted a program of Truth and Reconcilitation. Anyone in the former government who came forward and told the WHOLE truth was pardoned. However, if they lied or held back the full truth, they were open to prosecution.
The American 9/11 Truth movement, should fight for a 9/11 truth reconciliation. This will enable anyone to come forward and tell what they know.
The bible thumpers put the truths that Jesus extolled up on a pedestal, telling all of us we are too sinful and evil to do anything but grovel and worship idols, which Jesus himself warned against doing.
The fact is that what Jesus told all of humanity, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc. etc. . . . were very practical no-nonsense self help tips to create a less painful and more productive enjoyable life.
I urge all who hunger for 9/11 truth, to also call for a “9/11 Truth American Reconciliation Program,†whereby anyone involved in the attacks of 9/11 within our own government, will gain amnesty . . . providing they come forward and tell the whole truth as they know it.
Truth is much more important than revenge.
And 911blogger thought policeman George Washington provides echo
9/11 Truth and Reconciliation - OpEdNews
And in his comments we have CBBrooklyn pushing directed energy weapons and a couple of people who think he's going soft on the criminals. Oh well!