Can Dr. Frank Legge, PhD, Really Be This Stupid? More Evidence Legge is a Fraud


A recent posting on the LIHOP disinfo site 911Blogger, titled Dr Frank Legge on Visibility 9-11: Mounting Evidence Shows Boeing 757-200 Impact with Pentagon Probable, discusses LIHOP fraudster Dr. Franke Legge's latest junk science paper published in the now completely discredited Journal of 9/11 Studies, and links to an interview Frank Legge did with fellow fake truther and fellow Australian John Bursill.
The paper, [Edit: co-written by 4 year JREF member Warren Stutt], titled, "Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon", which pretends to accept the government-supplied flight recorder data as credible and completely ignores the fact that it is missing crucial information that should be present in order to link the data to a specific aircraft and fleet, also erroneously claims that the missing 4 seconds at the end supports an impact with the Pentagon. They base this claim on a Radio Altimeter parameter in which the NTSB has listed as "Not Working or Unconfirmed" in the NTSB FDR Report, yet, when cross-checked with the "Working and Confirmed" Primary Altimeter True Altitude data, the aircraft is still too high to hit the Pentagon.
According to Rob Balsamo of Pilots for 9/11 Truth:
It is interesting that the authors, editors and Journal in which the above mentioned paper is published is highly critical and skeptical of the National Institute Of Standards And Technology (NIST) data and reports with respect to the collapse of the World Trade Center, yet is now attempting to use unverified data from another government agency to support the government story regarding a Pentagon impact. Motives are even more puzzling especially when the NTSB data in fact does not support an impact while exceeding the performance limitations and capabilities of a standard 757 as set by the manufacturer based on wind tunnel and flight testing, by a wide margin. This is also corroborated by precedent. It is also clear the paper was not reviewed by any aviation expert prior to publish, as it is littered with speculation and gross errors.
But we're just getting started with this crank scientist Dr. Legge. In his interview with Bursill, Legge actually argues that it is perfectly believable that Hani Hanjour could have piloted AA77 into the Pentagon through all those tricky maneuvers, I kid you not! Even fellow disinfo agent Bursill is taken aback by this hilarity.
Some of Legge's comments in the discussion thread on 911Blogger, however, are so laughable that one really has to wonder how someone this stupid could have obtained a "PhD" after their name:
__________________________
[referring to "9-11 Joe" who just quit 911Blogger in disgust with all this BS]
Another one hits the dust.
and another one gone. How's the pup-tent tactic going? Yes a 757 may have hit the pentagon, I don't feel comfortable that the hole in the C-ring was caused by the vortex of the debris material as sometimes used as an theory here. I really don't trust any Govt. data at this point, pictures, FDR, why should we? Joe is a patriotic 911 truth activist who is now upset because of your small tent attitudes, go ahead and vote me down, bury the comment in censorship, it's just what we do. Peace
Submitted by peacefulwarrior on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 7:27am.
»
I have been very polite with you but
your sneering comments don't make it easy. I will just ask you one question. You are in the Pentagon near the C-ring in Wedge 1. You have heard that two planes have hit the Twin Towers and have seen one on TV, hitting the South Tower. You noticed that parts of the plane went right through the tower and came out at high velocity.
Now you hear that another plane is headed for Wedge 1 of the Pentagon. Can you honestly say that you will stay near the C-ring or will you find some way to put some distance between you and the path of the approaching plane?
While you are thinking about that, note that none of us trusts the govt data.
Submitted by Frank Legge on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 8:25am.
»
"Now you hear that another
"Now you hear that another plane is headed for Wedge 1 of the Pentagon. Can you honestly say that you will stay near the C-ring or will you find some way to put some distance between you and the path of the approaching plane?"[QUOTE]
Except no one knew the Pentagon was the target much less wedge 1 or C ring. It's well established that it was believed that the White House was the target. Even it they had known the Pentagon was the target,they had no way of knowing where it would strike the Pentagon. It could just have easily smashed down through the roof of any wedge or ring! Had you been inside the Pentagon & known a plane was going to crash into it but NOT WHERE all you would know is to get the hell out of that building! You could not say,"get away from this ring or that ring". The information simply wasn't available. In fact, if anyone did know what area of the Pentagon to stay away from,I'd view that as evidence of foreknowledge/inside job in & of itself.
Submitted by waitew on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 2:27pm.
»
Yeah
How about answering Frank's question directly instead of beating around the bush?
Submitted by SnowCrash on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 2:32pm.
»
"Now you hear that another
"Now you hear that another plane is headed for Wedge 1 of the Pentagon. Can you honestly say that you will stay near the C-ring or will you find some way to put some distance between you and the path of the approaching plane?"[QUOTE]
Is this Frank's question you are referring to? I understand the question,but I don't understand why he ask it or see how it's relevant. He's basically asking would you dodge a bullet if you knew when & where it was coming. Well,yes,I would. I don't understand what this has to do with the question at hand. Is Frank implying there weren't more causualties because people knew exactly where the object would strike? According to the OCT that isn't possible because they at believed the WH was the target & when it first approached the Pentagon it was far too high (7-8,000' if memory serves) which it why it had to make that spirling,descending turn.
Submitted by waitew on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 9:11pm.
[...]
I don't know why you are so diametrically opposed to AA7 having not hit the Pentagon. Other than the gov't telling us that's what hit there is no other evidence. If there were they'd be ALL OVER the news with things like: actual pictures of ANYTHING identifying the plane as AA77, a reconstruction of the plane from available parts, Black box info confirming said flight path. Why hasn't there been any official investigation of the flight path via the same FDR info that PFT used? Isn't this just common sense?
Submitted by 911truther on Tue, 02/15/2011 - 3:43pm.
»
you give yourself away
911truther. The idea that the perpetrators would deliberately conceal evidence about what hit the Pentagon in order to keep good people arguing has been covered many times. Your failure to acknowlege this work, but merely assert that evidence would be ALL OVER the news shows you have not done your homework. You could start here:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2009/WhatHitPentagonDrLeggeAug...
Submitted by Frank Legge on Thu, 02/17/2011 - 2:42am.
____________________
Cass Sunstein's agents John Bursill and Jimd3100 are becoming even more unabashedly blatant OCT suporters in this thread.
John Bursill: "...the most powerful position to take is the reasonable one of supporting the official account until proven otherwise. This is now my view."
And here's this little gem by agent Jimd3100:
Why I "Support" the Official Story
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-10-09/why-i-support-official-story
Conspiracy theories? No
Truth and accountability? Yes
BTW- The anthrax attacks are part of 9-11 as well. A lone nut scientist named Ivins made the anthrax by himself and then mailed it from a box 3 1/2 hours from his work/home? The problem with that is there is no evidence he made it, nor is there evidence he mailed it. There is lots of evidence that the highest levels of the Gov used it as an excuse to expand the "War on Terror".
Saying "The anthrax was fake" probably not a good idea either.
Submitted by jimd3100 on Wed, 02/09/2011 - 10:34am
With Eric Larson unabashedly utilizing JREF and 911Myths arguments in the David Ray Griffin attack thread, and now most of the rest of the LIHOP cabal's coming out of the closet even more blatantly as OCT supporters, one really has to wonder if they have completely lost touch with just how completely out of step their tiny little echo chamber is now with the rest of the 9/11 Truth Movement.
- Keenan's blog
- Login to post comments

right on Keenan
Not only do these guys now want to start from a default position of supporting the unproven official story until a different story can be proven (not likely to happen if the credibility of the OCT isn't questioned), they also dismiss every problem with the official story by SPECULATING that "oh, well you know, they are PROBABLY withholding all the evidence just to make us doubt them and sound foolish, and cell phones COULD MAYBE have worked on 9/11, and all the reporters and family members who talked about cell phone calls OBVIOUSLY got confused and meant Airfone calls, and cell phone repeaters COULD have been surreptitiously placed on board the flights to ensure a good dramatic story full of imminent death phone calls, etc., etc."
People who claim they don't see a problem here are either lying or in denial.
compare this to NIST's claims about the towers
When the planes hit each of the twin towers, X number of columns were PROBABLY severed, and our computer models said that the fires MAY have reached as high as X degrees and eventually this MUST HAVE caused the trusses to droop thereby pulling on the exterior columns making them buckle at which point the remaining X unsevered core columns would not have been able to stand up to collapse initiation after which we can all see the tops proceeded to crush everything beneath them. We found NO evidence of any explosives or incendiaries having been used, what people THINK is evidence MAY have actually been caused by compressing air (squibs), the melting plane or a battery backup system (the glowing orange stuff pouring out of the south tower), or some kind of oven effect (the molten metal and persistent heat in the rubble pile.)
These are the same arguments, for the same cause, most likely by the same people.
This is why I am 100% convinced Legge is an op
Your comparison of Legge's arguments to NIST's arguments are spot on.
Any "truther" who uses "debunker" style arguments to make their point is a fake truther in my book.
Frank... as Flo used to say to Mel on Alice... KISS MY GRITS!
I'm now convinced that JREF, NIST, and the 911Blogger LIHOP crew
are the same people working for the same cause and receiving their paychecks from the same paymasters. Their arguments, hypocrisy, and false logic are identical. The only difference is that the 911Blogger LIHOP crew claim to be part of the 9/11 Trith Movement and that they think the government was complicit. But even that seems to be changing, as most of the LIHOP frauds are now admitting to be OCT supporters trying to persuade everyone that they should take a default position of believing any and all unproven BS by the government.
They don't even try to hide their increasingly close association and coordination with the JREFers at all anymore, with chief LIHOP shill Eric Larson regularly plastering 911Blogger's front page with JREF arguments and acknowledgements of appreciation for the JREFers.
The fact that the Journal of 9/11 Studies uncritically accepts "research" papers from JREFers, such as this latest one on the FDR Analysis co-written by 4 year JREF member Warren Stutt, should raise alarm bells and now as far as I'm concerned calls into question ANYTHING published by that Journal. They have lost all credibility, and the Nano-Termite papers published by them should now be looked at with extreme suspicion. Was that the purpose all along of the Journal's discrediting themselves by publishing such obvious JREF crap on the Pentagon - to destroy their credibility on the WTC issue as well?
With the obvious cognitive infiltration of A&E911Truth along with the truth movement's most-trafficked blogging site and the "movement's premier scientific journal" now, all bets are off. We should now be prepared for the time when the Journal of 9/11 Studies comes out with a JREF-written paper on the WTC demolitions...or worse. I will not be surprised one bit at this point.
I just had to smile when I read this...
"They have lost all credibility, and the Nano-Termite papers published by them should now be looked at with extreme suspicion."
:)
"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK
Yep, my views on this have changed...
not because I don't believe there is merit to the theory that some form of thermite was used in the demolitions, which I still am convinced of based on the physical evidence and videos, but because we cannot trust papers published by several of the scientists (Ryan, Legge, etc.) on the issue based on their blatant disregard they have shown for honesty and objectiveness on other issues.
The Journal of 9/11 Studies is junk science, and the editors' characterization of the journal as being a "scientific peer-reviewed journal" can't really be taken seriously at this point based on many of the recent papers that have been published in it. That doesn't mean that every paper they ever published in the journal is bunk, just that there is no longer any reason to give any a priori credibility to any papers published by them, and additionally, we now have to be suspicious that their publications could contain booby traps that are designed to blow up on the movement in the future.
So, yea, it appears that you and I are much closer in our viewpoints on this issue than we were in the past. I try not to hold grudges, and we should be able to agree to disagree on some things, and agree to agree on other things based on each issue independently, as long as we are using honest arguments and good logic supported by evidence.
I'm willing to concede you were mostly right on this one, willy.
:)
rock on keenan
To quote the Amazing Shure, "reel geenius is reelizing when your wrong about stuff and changing you're mind" :)
Seriously though you're right to call out the JONES (journal of nine eleven studies, huh!) as potentially a mine field of disinfo. As u know I have my own issues with the evidence of nano thermite and with its main proponent (steven jones). Agreeing to disagree on some things so that we can find areas of agreement is very important, which is why I appreciate willyloman despite his sometimes abrasive style (pots and kettles, gret, yeah yeah) :)
I agree Keenan...
... and I don't hold grudges. As Dennis can attest to, I recommend this site on mine all the time. It's an open discussion forum with participants who are well researched and passionate about the subject. Occasionally people disagree and when they do so, they mean it. It's healthy, it's debate, and it usually improves everyone's understanding of the subject.
Which brings me to something you mentioned in your earlier comment... I think you might be onto something.
"I'm now convinced that JREF, NIST, and the 911Blogger LIHOP crew are the same people working for the same cause and receiving their paychecks from the same paymasters. Their arguments, hypocrisy, and false logic are identical. The only difference is that the 911Blogger LIHOP crew claim to be part of the 9/11 Trith Movement..."
You know, I had noticed this before but I hadn't really thought about it. I figured they were similar, in deceptive tactics, aggressive attitudes, twisted logic.. I thought they were similar because they were similar types of people using the same tired play-book... but, your comment just reminded me of something I read about this recent HBGary case.
Turns out... they may actually be the same people.
The Air force down here in Tampa actually (MacDill, where they run the Global War on Terror and most of the human terrain (psyops) programs) purchased software which allows one user to create up to 10 unique personas on the net, complete with different IP addresses, locations, ect. then tracks there internet interactions... like a character in a long-running soap opera.
"As the text explains, the software would require licenses for 50 users with 10 personas each, for a total of 500. These personas would have to be "replete with background , history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographacilly consistent."
... Though many questions remain about how the military would apply such technology, the reasonable fear should be perfectly clear. "Persona management software" can be used to manipulate public opinion on key information, such as news reports. An unlimited number of virtual "people" could be marshaled by only a few real individuals, empowering them to create the illusion of consensus." Raw Story
Now this contract is for April 2010, but as we can see, they certainly had the idea for it prior to that, so I wonder if they had another system in place for achieving the same goal but it was more cumbersome.
This certainly goes a long way to suggest that these people, these JREFers, these LIHOPers and controlled opposition "amen chorus" at Blogger and elsewhere, may in fact be the same people... literally the same people.
I thought you might find that interesting. Here is the link.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-softwar...
"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK
don't forget William Rodriguez
who was James (JREF) Randi's personal assistant for some time, and presumably some kind of protege of his given his status as an amateur magician (James Randi himself being a magician). Is it a coincidence that Penn and Teller, two more professional magicians, have been at the forefront of attacking the 9/11 truth movement, starting with their attacks on easy targets like fake truthers Eric Hufschmid and Jimmy Walter?
When the truth about 9/11 becomes widely known it will behoove us to press for investigations into all of these people's role in the cover-up. If found to be accessories after the fact they must be brought to justice.
oh right, according to you everyone is fake
Were the buildings fake too? Fake fake fake. The truth movement must distance itself from these irresponsible accusations of fake hijackings, fake phone calls, and especially fake truthers. I call on all prominent figures in the movement to denounce you for promoting this nonsense.
I, for one, have completely withdrawn
my endorsement of gReT.
What? But... but...
... i was just making a video... oh drat
"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK
Honestly Vic
as if any of it would be fake ...
I mean really, come on, why would anyone need to fake anything?
i can certainly attest. . .
. . . that willyloman recommended this (wtcd) site to me after i was evicted from of 911blogger.
you sound foolish
In my country (The Netherlands) we place a high premiere on logic and reason. Islamofascism is REAL, ok? I know the guy who knows a guy that knows all the guys who do the drug running from the poppy fields in Afghanistan to the night clubs in Europe. It's an arab thing, ok? Where you think Atta learned to enjoy his cocaine? Stop trying to make excuses for the hijackers - they were working for Bush, ok? Idiot.
Of course... you know the guy
This movement jumped the shark when we started taking crustaceans seriously.
gulp
look out for those netherlandish claws!
Legge's FDR paper broken down
I posted a thread where I 'broke down' Legge & Stutt's FDR paper (into very small pieces IMHO) at the 911oz forum.
Pentagon: Dr. Frank Legge/Warren Stutt FDR Paper
http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9677
It is worth noting how long that Warren Stutt (the CO-AUTHOR of Legge's FDR paper and 'decode' programmer) has been a member of the JREF (4.5 years, I believe).
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6833840&postcount=4279
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6833935&postcount=4281
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=6834088&postcount=4284
It is also interesting to note that Stutt has essentially disappeared from any 9/11 discussion now that he was able to "get on with the rest of my[Stutt's] life" after penning this FDR paper with Legge that the TrueFaction clique/Vicky's 911blogger Puppet Show are pimping as the 'be-all-end-all' of Pentagon research.
mrbo
More on Frank Legge
Very revealing concessions from Frank Legge http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/3016
Kevin Ryan Jumps Another Shark, Lands in Jim Hoffman's Sinking Ship of Pentagon Disinfo; Dr. Frank Legge and his strange case of incongruity http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2367
Frank Legge Promotes Islamofascist Myth http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2442/results
Thanks Keenan John Parulis
Thanks Keenan
John Parulis
(Moderator note: Annoymouse comments are not supposed to be signed with a name for exactly the reason you see here -- evidently this was not written by John Parulis. This one slipped through. Sorry -- c455)
Sorry Folks, I did not
Sorry Folks, I did not publish that. Disinfo at work at wtcdemolition. I do not agree with much of what keenan says here.
The real John Parulis