As our readers know, Sott.net doesn't always take the easy path, but we do try to take the right path and we don't like to get egg on our faces. If we think we are right in the face of all opposition, we'll stick to our guns. By the same token, if we discover we have made an error, we admit and correct it. We don't like to have to admit and correct errors and so, we try to avoid making them.
There's an old saying: 'Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater' and never was that saying more à propos than the current Wikileaks/Julian Assange situation. This saying is particularly relevant in respect of those who deride Wikileaks and Assange, and point out the many problems that this situation presents to the careful thinker and researcher. And here, we include ourselves at Sott.net to some extent. We have had to sit down and discuss and think about this issue long and hard and the following is the outcome of that reflection.
First of all, Sott.net has friends who have taken positions on both sides of the issue -- friends whose opinions we respect and, more than that, we understand them. We have questioned the Assange supporters closely and even they admit that the content of the leaks is certainly not what one would wish. One of them pointed out that diplomatic cables are not likely to contain any real dirty secrets other than the standard duplicity of diplomacy since what diplomats think or know is only what is fed to them by intelligence agencies. All you can learn from diplomatic cables is how they are going about advancing the agendas of their governments -- agendas that are operative but cannot be openly declared. In short, noticing that the agenda is to set up Iran for attack, or Pakistan, from diplomatic cables is just what one would expect. As one pundit wrote disparagingly:
"Meanwhile, the organization has certainly discovered the art of over-promising, the latest Cablegate docs being a prime example. If there's anything scandalous in them, it's that the US government isn't evil enough. There's no talk of toppling foreign governments. No examples of breaking international law. No assassination talk. Nothing. Of course if you didn't bother to read any details, you'd think there had been some massive breach of America's dirtiest secrets that ripped the veil off the cloak and dagger world of the US diplomatic corps (of course, US politicians calling Wikileaks a "terrorist" organization only help to blow the docs out of proportion)."
All you are seeing in these cables is naked pathology in action: you can get a good idea about how this works from reading Wikleaks and Imperial Mobilization - The CIA's "Mighty Wurlitzer". But, as one of our researchers has pointed out, since we are developing pretty good ideas about how the PTB (Powers That Be) operate through the intelligence community, we would postulate that even the CIA doesn't know what their own agency does or knows. Compartmentalization is the name of the game. A recent two year study by the Washington Post found that the American national security apparatus is "so large, so unwieldy and so secretive that no-one knows how much money it costs, how many people it employs, how many programs exist within it, or exactly how many agencies do the same work". Therefore, it is highly likely that both the diplomatic corps and most of the CIA have no idea to what extent they are used as pawns in a bigger game.
Then, of course, there is what the MSM (mainstream media) is doing with the leaks. Well, are we surprised? This is the same MSM that sold us the lies that led to the Iraq invasion and is owned by the Zionists just as the CIA is owned by the Zionists. (Keep in mind that Zionists do not necessarily represent Jews but certainly do find friendly bedfellows with the Nazi secret services imported into the U.S. under Project Paperclip and whose ideologies -- and personalities - became the driving forces for American Secret State policies.)
State Department or diplomatic corps communication leaks are probably not the best place to find much damaging information. Diplomats are used and duped more often than not when the 'Secret Team' involves them in their fun and games.
So we can pretty much dismiss the leaked documents themselves and how they are being handled by the MSM as mostly disinformation and propaganda and spin. We can even speculate that no leak ever happens without an agenda behind it, and this batch of leaks is no different. But that doesn't mean it always has to be that way, and this is where we come to Julian Assange and his vision. At this point, we want to share with you a little bit of the struggles we went through to come to the ideas we're going to express here. We need to think first about Truth. Allow us to quote a bit from Ernest Gellner's Anthropology and Politics:
Jean-Paul Sartre's Huis Clos (No Way Out) is an account of a triangular situation in which three characters are so related to each other that each one of them can both thwart another and yet is also doomed to be thwarted. A kind of three-pronged stalemate is the consequence. Not one of the participants can break out of the situation, but none is allowed even to attain the peace of resignation. They are doomed to torment and be tormented. It is in this kind of context that Sartre comes to make the celebrated observation that hell is other people.
When it comes to the modern attitude to truth, it does seem that the contemporary situation is triangular, somewhat in this manner.
There are three principal contestants, roughly equidistant from each other. No single one is able to secure a really convincing ascendancy over the others, and liberate himself from the self-image-corroding taunts of at least one other member of the triad. It is all a little like the children's game of scissors, paper, stone: scissors cut paper, paper covers stone, stone blunts scissors.
Gellner goes on to describe his three way stalemate as occurring between Relativists, Fundamentalists, and "Enlightenment Puritans". In his book, Postmodernism, Reason and Religion he describes the latter as Enlightened Rationalist Fundamentalists which we will refer to as ERFs.
The Relativists reject the very idea of Truth since everything is relative to the observer, so to say. They actually believe in "belief" itself, devoid of content. They are against the idea of revealed truth that is singular and all-encompassing, but rather advocate the validity of all "truths" and points of view. The pursuit of any transcending truth is damned in their eyes. Anyone who disputes them is in peril of being damned for a colonialist, patriarchalist, or imperialist. Unfortunately, they become very "fundamentalist" about this -- their Relativism is the Truth - which leads us, of course, to the Fundamentalists.
The Fundamentalists promote the Truth, but it is revealed truth from their god and, since they come in different flavors, there are different gods and different revealed truths, each adhered to by the given Fundamentalist with a death grip that can mean death for many others who do not subscribe to their particular beliefs.
The thing is, the Fundamentalists have a point against the Relativists: the Relativists position is not serious or consistent, nor is it capable of endowing anyone with genuine moral convictions. Our world is, indeed, a plural one, but it is based on the uniqueness of Truth as a value, something to be sought, not something to be claimed as "owned." This brings us to the Enlightenment/Rationalist Fundamentalists.
The Enlightened Rationalist Fundamentalist (ERF) is one who thinks that Science (selecting that option with the highest probability based on observation and experiment as opposed to considering all options as equally valid via belief) is the cognitive path toward Truth and, at the same time, is convinced by the path of reason that Truth -- with a capital T -- does exist even if we aren't there yet. The Enlightened Rationalist is convinced that Truth, as the ideal, can be unique and is definitely important which is the Fundamentalist view. However, the ERF is more careful and fastidious in identifying the truth that deserves respect (i.e. selecting the probability).
The ERF is not interested or tempted by the solipsistic relativistic position though he appreciates the tolerance that it recommends (at least in theory) because that tolerance is at the basis of making many observations and experiments before arriving at a conclusion about probabilities. The ERF, while sharing with the Fundamentalist the idea that the ideal of Truth is real and to be striven for, rejects the idea that he possesses it or that he even can possess it. He only knows that there are procedures for investigating the world that have positive and beneficial results: all ideas, data, inquirers are equal at the beginning and all cognitive claims must collect and analyze data on terms of equality, and no circular, self-confirming visions are allowed, but in the end, there is a conclusion that, at least until new data contradicts it, trumps all other visions. You could say that the ERF has a religious nature divorced from blind belief and that this inspires him or her to orderly conduct for its own sake.
Unfortunately, the ERF lives in a world that is too abstract to appeal to the average person -- to the masses -- and it is definitely not a cognitive style that sustains one emotionally in crisis. The idea that even-handed handling of evidence, careful collection of data and even more careful analysis, leads to a correct understanding of the world around us while admitting that it is only a process and our understanding today may change with the addition of new data, isn't much to warm the heart of those ruled by passion, nor does it provide clear rules for behaving with dignity in difficult or tragic situations. Most people can't live in a state of ambiguity.
In short: "The Fundamentalist and the [ERF] share a sense of and respect for the uniqueness of truth; the [ERF] and the Relativist share a penchant for tolerance; and the Relativist and the Fundamentalist share a reasonably well furnished, habitable world, as opposed to the arid emptiness of the ambiguous world of the ERF. The Relativist even has access to a whole set of exotic worlds which are at the same time discreetly connected to all modern conveniences." (Gellner)
So, if you take the above discussion about different, fundamental ways to view Truth and the pursuit of same, and add in psychopathology, well, you can see how difficult this situation with Wikileaks and Julian Assange can be for different people. Any one of the three main positions can be degraded by pathological cognition.
So, taking all the data and observations into consideration, what comes out as the most likely probability? (By the very fact that we are analyzing this problem this way reveals our own position as very close to that of the ERF crowd.)
Okay, let's deal with the fact that Julian Assange doesn't seem to be the brightest light bulb in the pack when it comes to analyzing raw data. As one highly respected and well-known 9-11 researcher of the ERF ilk wrote to us yesterday:
Just the fact Assange refers to 9/11 truth as "nonsense" says it all, I think. The guy simply is too smart not to have figured it out soon after it happened. His "leaks" are carefully crafted to a) keep the public focus away from the growing awareness of the 9/11 coverup, and b) to work on the sheeple, subliminally, with the logic, "If there were anything at all to 9/11, these guys would have surely blown the lid."
Let's face it: 9/11 Truth would be the ultimate leak. Ergo, people are being led to believe that if "hundreds of thousands of documents" contain not a shred of evidence of 9/11 being an inside job, all truthers must be nutters.
9/11 is everything. In the grand scheme of things, nothing else really matters. Expose 9/11, and the whole house of cards instantly crumbles.
While we agree that the Truth about 9-11 (not manipulated diplomatic correspondence about it) is everything in terms of the Ultimate Leak, we don't agree that Assange should be required to be a 9-11 Truther or a data analyst to be an activist for Truth and Transparency in government.
On the one hand, many people are being put in an impossible situation. If you come out in support of Assange, are you supporting the lies in the leaks, the drive to war, etc? That's how it feels to many people. But on the other hand, if you don't support him, you are basically acting against the principles of free speech, transparency in government, the "little guy" against the Fascist behemoth, and are supporting the destruction of all our freedoms.
Regarding Assange, personally, knowing what we know about spin, it's very hard to tell when the MSM is putting words in his mouth or not reporting exactly what he says, or does and the context. On the other hand, with Wikileaks itself, and his "representatives," he does seem to have ample outlets for getting his thoughts and ideas across in the event the MSM is misrepresenting him. That being said, the result of the play of these elements is that he is not terribly attractive as a spokesperson.
Nevertheless, it's pretty clear that the Swedish prosecution is a cooked up load of harassment and he deserves protection from that nonsense, but on the other hand, Assange does come across as pretty crass and that turns off both the Fundamentalists and the Enlightened Rationalist Fundamentalists! He is, in their eyes, neither morally upright nor fastidious in his handling of data.
The thing is, the idea of Wikileaks is great in principle and that's what makes this so darned difficult: Assange is the spokesperson for an idea whose time has come, but the leaked material he is representing is not worth dying for. In short, Assange and the propaganda within the leaks are the bathwater, the public right to expose government corruption is the baby.
So the point is this: the principle is worth everything to all of us, here and now. As John Naughton wrote in the Guardian yesterday:
[Wikileaks] represents the first really sustained confrontation between the established order and the culture of the internet. There have been skirmishes before, but this is the real thing. ...
What Wikileaks is really exposing is the extent to which the western democratic system has been hollowed out. In the last decade its political elites have been shown to be incompetent (Ireland, the US and UK in not regulating banks); corrupt (all governments in relation to the arms trade); or recklessly militaristic (the US and UK in Iraq). And yet nowhere have they been called to account in any effective way. Instead they have obfuscated, lied or blustered their way through. And when, finally, the veil of secrecy is lifted, their reflex reaction is to kill the messenger.
"Disclosure is messy and tests moral and legal boundaries. It is often irresponsible and usually embarrassing. But it is all that is left when regulation does nothing, politicians are cowed, lawyers fall silent and audit is polluted. Accountability can only default to disclosure." What we are hearing from the enraged officialdom of our democracies is mostly the petulant screaming of emperors whose clothes have been shredded by the net.
Which brings us back to the larger significance of this controversy. The political elites of western democracies have discovered that the internet can be a thorn not just in the side of authoritarian regimes, but in their sides too. It has been comical watching them and their agencies stomp about the net like maddened, half-blind giants trying to whack a mole. It has been deeply worrying to watch terrified internet companies -- with the exception of Twitter, so far -- bending to their will.
But politicians now face an agonising dilemma. The old, mole-whacking approach won't work. Wikileaks does not depend only on web technology. Thousands of copies of those secret cables -- and probably of much else besides -- are out there, distributed by peer-to-peer technologies like BitTorrent. Our rulers have a choice to make: either they learn to live in a Wikileakable world, with all that implies in terms of their future behaviour; or they shut down the internet.
In other words, it doesn't matter that the content of the leaks are questionable, what matters is that this is, indeed, a confrontation of the little guy with the established order that we all decry at every level. Julian is not perfect -- who of us is? -- but what matters is that he has the courage of his convictions (and even if that is a sham -- as some suggest -- he at least has produced a reasonable facsimile of courage and nowadays, that's good enough). Just think, if this round is won by the little guy, that all-revealing leak about 9-11 has a much greater potential for happening than if Julian -- and the principle of Truth -- is defeated.
Yeah, somebody leaked some low-level diplomatic cables full of chaff and the MSM is having a field day, but it is how we respond to the act of leaking and the one who has the courage to stand up to the Fascists that will determine if anyone is going to be courageous enough in the future to leak something that really matters. We don't have to like or agree with what has been leaked, we don't have to like or agree with Julian as a person, but we must defend Julian and activists and hacktivists, or we are doomed.
Yes, it's possible that the whole thing was set up with no single way out for anyone or maybe it just happened that way because different people have different cognitive styles. Either way, we cannot allow it to further divide those who seek truth and Truth. It's a certainty that no one else has stepped up to the plate and put themselves on the line as Julian Assange has. Maybe he's mad, and maybe it takes somebody who is a little mad to demonstrate that kind of courage. That doesn't matter right now. The world is rapidly descending into a different, more dangerous madness and if it takes a Vendetta to start the pendulum swinging in the other direction, so be it.
Because, in the end, it is the principle that the people are entitled to the Truth that matters and that is what is at stake here.



i dunno
choosing between 'support WL/Assange' or 'don't support the little guy and face your doom' seems like a false dichotomy, but these are interesting articles and it's good to see sott taking a psychological approach.
Assange is most likely an agent...
...and wikileaks most likely an op. what is left to discuss? yes openness is good, yes responsible leaking is a good thing. who's saying they aren't? it's like suggesting that if we don't support Jon Gold or Steve Alten's shitty books we don't support 9/11 truth. How many f**cking times do we have to go through this same BS of false champions? Anyone at this point who goes out of their way to try to defend wikileaks or Assange may as well write "cognitive infiltrator" on their forehead. in fact, tattoo it because there's no going back!
"but what matters is that he
"but what matters is that he has the courage of his convictions (and even if that is a sham -- as some suggest -- he at least has produced a reasonable facsimile of courage and nowadays, that's good enough). Just think, if this round is won by the little guy, that all-revealing leak about 9-11 has a much greater potential for happening than if Julian -- and the principle of Truth -- is defeated."
It IS a sham and his reasonable facsimile is certainly NOT good enough--what kind of psychobabble is that? The little guy will not win this round. What will happen instead is that someone who MAY have some info about 9/11 may end up leaking it to EXACTLY the wrong people and possibly be killed as a result. You want to leak stuff in secret to trustworthy people? Then go around leaking it to everyone you trust. Do NOT leak it to the central figure in what is obviously some kind of charade. Do NOT leak it to anyone who claims 9/11 truth is BS. Find your own way to do things--the easy ways are traps.
another way
Instead of emailing it to people you 'trust', you could upload it anonymously to multiple locations on the internet, and then send emails informing interested parties of the download locations. Or just mass email an attachment .. the main thing is having an anonymous connection (or someone else's) to start with; the idea that WL can protect your anonymity otherwise is false. And if you have one, you don't need them. You could send physical copies through the mail too, or just leave them lying around the place (labeled 'top secret *** files' or some such)!
If you wanted to just risk it, there are distributed p2p networks that have been designed with anonymity in mind (e.g. freenet). WL's centralised model is ridiculous, unless you want to identify leakers and filter leaks.
exactly
"Wikileaks" is the "easy way", which to me means it is to be avoided. Exposing information that puts you at risk is never going to be easy--to think that it could ever be as simple as uploading your new profile pic to Facebook is a fantasy. I see this as yet another desperate 4th quarter attempt by the perps to save their asses--its importance to them can be deduced by the inordinate level of investment being made in what is such a transparent ploy. It's like watching the emperor's entourage continue to pretend their leader isn't naked when just about all the public is bent over, laughing hysterically at the old man's stupidity...
Wikileaks is just like Sibel Edmonds
False champions of truth. They are being boosted by the fake truthers to gain legitimacy, but they both fall flat when it comes to the truth. They reveal this or that less crucial truth, but take very vague or even counter positions to 9-11 truth.
Remember how Sibel kept soliciting insiders to reveal leaks through her website? Sounds so similar, and so far both are totally disappointing when it comes to 9-11. No they are not so stupid that they don't even know 9-11 was an inside/Zionist job, they probably do know, but they are working for the other side and never intend to tell the truth. Pity whoever trusts them enough to give them any real inside info, they will likely be entrapped.
exactly like Sibel Edmonds
a false champion used as part of the controlled opposition to lure the well meaning but gullible into a trap of irrelevance or worse. we may never know the fate of people who have been foolish enough to confide in any of these impostors.
There recently seems to be a
There recently seems to be a breaking wave on 911truth.
With Building What, Colorado airing Loose Change on Public Tv, Senator Gravel possibly challenging Obama in a primary with reinvestigation on the tab, Fox news, The left wing 'intellectuals' and alternate internet news beginning to accept the possibility etc.
I have absolutely no doubt that some or all of the above are fake truth, and some have schemes that will backfire on 911 truth, but to quote Oscar Wilde "There is one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is NOT being talked about.-The adage 'Any publicity is good publicity'.
With the Ae911 truth turning the screws, building What, The Australian miner bloke, millions of grass roots citizens of the world are joining this breaking wave.
I accept that the Lihoppers or something else is the fallback plan, and infiltrators will try to change the direction of the wave, but they are a few drops trying to change the direction of millions of people all getting the info one way or another from a miriad of different sources, and going where the evidence takes them.
The perps are not going to say "fair cop governor,I done wrong -lead me to jail" are they?
They are going to make a move to try to neutralise this now very serious threat to them, or the control they have had over pseudo democracy and world affairs ends soon, after hundreds of years rein.(Since the invention of the printing press)
The Lihop plan does not appear to be working for them.
Their main problem is that there is a very effective means of mass communication not under their control, If they can cut that, they can carry on as normal with total control, -probably incorporating a mildly publicised tidy Lihop end to 911 truth.
However 911truth is not the only faction in play here, the anti globalists, anti war crowd, anti austerity measures/let the banks fail Max Keiser brigade, domestic economic pressures are all part of this wave against the status quo. These factions may well be led by people of dubious integrity, but again, the point is that the wave is made up of millions of citizens. Unlike the focus of 911truth, many of these organisations and commentators like Pilger, Chomsky, PCR are focussed on where the problem lies , wall street/ the world banks /Zionism/ press subservience, and these are probably different faces of the same beast.
It is my belief that individual truth/belief is merely specialisation of interests. Many other factions have dedicated their output into these other areas .But there is one thing we all have in common , and that is that our existence, power, and potential largely exist because of the net.
At this moment in time, it is hard to judge whether it is all already over, whether there is the will or power left in the oligarchy to start a new war with Iran , Venezuela, North Korea, or pull another false flag stunt for domestic purposes,send the blackshirts into American streets to quell dissent, take over the net.
In the long term their fate is probably sealed due to economic reality and loss of status relative to other world powers, but in the short term with Palin or another fake Wall st democrat interned, and the same paid for politicians in government, we are all facing a big bully cornered with a very large gun –the military being the ONLY asset they have left. The Zionist war mongers have certainly not been taking a low profile. Potentially, and in a very short space of time, with all out war they could make all the damage they have done so far seem insignificant.
That is what is in play here for ALL the anti establishment factions.
IF...... the PTB have the will and the power left to do it, and carry on down the path they are on, they need to counter the wave which is nearly upon them .
To do that, there is one game in town, only one,- Neutralise the net!.
I believe Assange is part of their big move. They are attempting to show that cyber terrorism is the greatest threat to national security, and have a plan to play this all the way until they pull the plug on the net, and turn it into online commerce and state truth only.
That is what I believe this article is about, and why people like Pilger, Chomsky etc who are just as able to work this out as I am are supporting the PRINCIPLE of wikileaks and net neutrality, because they believe this could be the big move against their power base/potential for change.
From the perspective of those of us who chose to specialise in 911 truth as the most likely path to change and who have hardcore evidence to back us up, it seems inconceivable that the other factions have ignored, censored or even disputed us without discussing or publicising our empirical evidence of criminality by the PTB, something that they on the whole lack.
I can envisage many possible reasons for this, in each individual case it may be a different reason or a combination.
1. Ignorance of the evidence due to their own specialisation in their own faction.
2. Vanity , that the path they chose is the more important, has the better chance of success, and that other factions are either distractions, or that they are vulnerable to PR or legislative backlashes that they do not wish to be associated with.
3. They have been got to, and warned to not cross a line.
4. They are fake and are trying to misdirect attention from the most vulnerable area ie 911 evidence
5. Normative psychology within the faction.
6. They believe 911 truth is highly flammable, and that this bunny is better revealed in drips rather than see blood on the streets and a power vacuum -a possible recipie for unmasked Fascism.Ie stability and gradual change v revolution.
Personally, I believe that people like Pilger and possibly even Chomsky, have done enough in their chosen areas to prove their credentials that they are working towards the same anti establishment ends that we are. Well, lets say I will give them one more chance. (I am currently not of a mind to extend that privilege to Assange though) A change seems to be in the air, William Blum, Chomsky admitting ‘possibility’ alt press softening, I am sure Gretavo that you will disagree with me here and continue to call them out and I see good reason for doing that, either to bring them in line, or to be a watchdog against future misdirection by them should they happen to be infiltrators after all.
However, the bigger picture is the wave, if faction leaders and commentators try to turn back the wave they will be washed away in the surf it is too big , has too much momentum , and is from too many different sources to be stopped.
That is, unless they take control of the net, and I don’t know what momentum would be left then.
That is what this article is saying to me, and I would suggest everyone who wants change realises that all factions must be wary ,look very closely at the next moves, and stand together against any attempts against net neutrality.
It does not mean you have to send John Gold a christmas card Gret!
very good points, Allende Admirer
It seems that the biggest danger now is for the PTB to attempt to link truth outlets on the net with some sort of "cyber terrorism" or some other perceived danger that would "threaten" the security or cause havoc with mainstream Americans. In other words, some sort of net-based false flag attack that could be blamed on 9/11 truthers, "Wiki-truthers", or some other "radical" or "extremist" group on the net that spreads "damaging" information.
Problem, reaction, solution. A crisis originating on the net, causing shock and loss of safety/security among the public, which needs to be dealt with by pulling the plug on the net, or vastly restricting net neutrality or freedom of speech, etc.
That's what I would expect their next move to be, if the PTB really see the uncontrolled spread of information on the net as their biggest threat.
hi Keenan, there need not
hi Keenan,
there need not even be a link from cyber terror and to 9-11 truth. there only needs to be a link from fake truthing like wikileaks and cybrterrorism/hacking of government and strategic commercial IT infrastructure.
that is all the excuse needed to justify control of the web
thankfully we don't rely on leaks
9/11 truth doesn't need to support wikileaks or anything like it because we have enough ammo in the public domain to put the 9/11 lie down for the count. those who hope that 9/11 truth will come easily through leaks are hoping against hope and I will even say being lazy.
agreed-excellent post, AA but with some reservations
In my opinion we absolutely must keep the big picture in mind and appreciate the complexity of how the world works. It is indeed a great sign that we get more and more attention all the time--even if a lot of it is bad. one thing that is always pretty clear to me when I do outreach in the streets is the levels of ignorance we're up against, and the way that over time they are slowly shifting... in a nutshell...
1st level: total ignorance. never knew anyone questioned 9/11. these folks could go either way when exposed to the facts. yes, it may sound crazy to them but they also might see clearly what we did when we say WTC7, etc. and they haven't been biased by any of media personalities they trust trashing the truth movement.
2nd level: there are two types of people who have at least some passing awareness of 9/11 truth issues. one type is open-minded even if they are skeptical, and the second is those who think 9/11 truth is "a bunch of conspiracy nonsense"
3rd level: those who know full well that 9/11 was a scam and are either working to expose it or working to cover it up. I grant you that there may be a gray area between these two groups that might include people who are working to achieve a "soft landing", i.e. who want to mitigate in advance any harmful fallout from the revelation of the truth to the masses. I am not that convinced however that Chomsky, for one, is one of those people. There are many reasons for this but the main one for me is that on the issue of Israel he is without question a Zionist. Anyone who advocates a two-state "solution" is a Zionist and frankly the two-state "solution" is just the last step before the "Final Solution" of the Palestinian question. As such I find it much more likely that Chomsky knows full well what 9/11 was about and works to cover it up to protect Zionism.
Finally, I disagree that the internet is the end all be all of the truth movement. Yes it is an amazing weapon, but it is double-edged. It is not the magic tool for enlightening people that we might wish and imagine it could be, it is just as easily used effectively by the powers that be, tough it does balance the playing field somewaht to our advantage. Our outreach MUST go beyond the internet, and into the streets, our schools, workplaces, restaurants, cafes, buses, subways, supermarkets, everywhere. A brief conversation with a stranger can have a huge impact--not just in terms of facts that they may not have known but in the extremely important campaign to show the average man and woman in the street that truthers are people just like them, not the caricature we are portrayed as. This is the only way I've found to even get a foot in the door with the closed minded types of my 2nd level above. They believe what they do not from real analysis but from a gut feeling based on media-fed assumptions. Undermine those assumptions by defying their expectations of what a truther is and you have planted a seed of doubt.
Gretavo, Actually agree with
Gretavo,
Actually agree with everything you say here, for me, ‘truth’ is actually a matter of probability rather than discernable absolutes, and until proof is beyond reasonable doubt, all options should be catered for . The equivalent in physics is either quantum mechanics per se, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, or even Schrödinger’s cat..
The problem is partly nostalgia for people like me, who suspected that all was not what it appeared to be well before 911, and Chomsky, Pilger, and Michael Moore were the lone voices in popular culture that offered a more plausible hypothesis about how things are/worked,
By my ‘any publicity is good publicity’ logic , it is hard to agree that these people who have contributed so much to’ the wave’ are counter productive, but I fully understand and am aware of the shortfalls in their current positions on 911truth. Chomsky’s Manufacture of Consent was an eye opening and brilliant work , which gave people like me that smelled a rat with the way things were, a modicum of justification along with the possibility that we just paranoid alienated sceptics., but I have also had conversations (even recently) with clever people who know Chomsky’s work, (he did a few appearances book signing’s here in the UK, and was allowed periodically on late night ‘progressive’ news) who have a problem with 911 truth because of his misdirection, and I fully understand the implications and problems that causes his credibility
Zionism is not my best suit, and admire your confidence and self assuredness that a 2 state solution= Zionism, but elsewhere Chomsky has been no friend to Israel or Zionism (Again -,granted fake opposition is a possibility)
On the question that the internet is the extent of the truth movement , I said I don’t know what momentum is left if the internet is removed. My hope is that this is not true and my advice is that all movements strategise for a possibility where it is removed overnight with no notice. My best guess is that it would be catastrophic, as the new revolutionary is primarily an armchair one, and I sincerely don’t know if they would stand up and be counted in demonstrations if the shit hit the fan.
I have been trying to write an article/ comment for a few years now about why the internet is of crucial importance to human culture from an evolutionary and historical perspective, but to explain my logic, I keep going deeper and deeper into background and supporting logic, and the article gets longer and longer then I lose the drive to finalise it. I am compelled to say this stuff though, so I will post it soon on a new thread here, and I hope you lot can wade though its unedited length which seems to be necessary to me to evaluate its meaning/argument.
I need to blurb this lot out to explain further why IMO, the net is the only game in town as stated above.
good article making points
good article making points for why Chomsky is a zionist:
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/planet-chomsky-vs-dershowitzs-orbit-by-g...
leak to those you trust
yes, yes, Gretavo!! although the intellectual exercise of reading this article was quite provocative, and some points are taken, regarding the domestic cables, etc., I questioned it's psychobabbly
nature.
this wikileaks could be a huge busywork honeypot intended to distract from the essence of who, why, and how 911 happened.
As Mr Gold prepares to throw
As Mr Gold prepares to throw his body on the wheels of justice... again... (Yawn)!, interesting comments emmerge re Chomsky.
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-12-20/civil-disobedience-911-justice-whi...
I suppose I should not take heresay from a 911 blogger favored son too seriously, but these are astounding comments claimed to be from Chomsky to Vesa.
From Vesa:
"Btw, Chomsky (with whom I'm hopefully gearing towards the end of a rather absurd debate), while deriding the efforts of the truth movement (because all the movement does is "exonerate the Bush administration" by pointing the finger at Saddam or Osama) keeps wondering why the movement does not set up tribunals. I have pointed him to NYCCAN, but apparently that doesn't count, as he has never commented on it. According to Chomsky, tribunals would be the only way to go."
---------------
How the hell could any informed person believe that that is the summation of the 911 truth movement? True Jon Gold has been in his ear in the past, and he could turn anyone away from 911 truth with his islamofascist bullshit, so why not Chomsky?
-----------------
But then more from vesa....
"... but he just replied that it "merits no comment".
Based on our voluminous exchanges, nothing that the truth movement does can, in Chomsky's view, change the fact that the Bush administration or the military-industrial complex could not have been behind the 9/11 attacks, and that is because none of the hijackers were Iraqis or identified as such. That fact discredits any and all evidence to the contrary, which is why I asked what function said tribunal could then have in the first place. But that, too, merited no comment."
----------------------------
Amazing comment said to be from Chomsky , (but unverifiable). Whatever 'truth' may or may not be in this
testimony, Chomsky really has to lay his cards on the table re 911 truth in the very near future, or there can be no question that he is an obstacle to change. How the fuck does our best evidence (IMHO CD), bear any relation to Chomsky's alledged comments on what the movement represents?
It is inconcevable that he has never heard of AE911truth!
Chomsky SO knows
Way back in the day when I ran into him in Harvard Square he pulled the old "you can't go by what you read on the internet" and "no experts agree with you" when I mentioned WTC7, though he corrected himself almost immediately and said something to the effect of "well except for that one guy" meaning Steven Jones. I would normally say not to waste time with him anymore but he deserves to be put on the spot as much as possible, and to be gotten on the record so that when people know the truth they will be painfully aware of Chomsky's true nature.
as far as Gold...
...again trying to place himself in the limelight--er, between the gears of the machine--it looks like another attempt to draw attention to his LIHOP mission. Now, I know Cindy Sheehan lives off her husband's alimony (and probably social security by now) but how exactly does Jon Gold get away with living la vida loca as a "professional activist"? Must be nice not to have to work for a living and use your free time to stage bogus attention-whoring stunts. Or *is* this work? ;)
job
Does anyone know anything about Jon Gold's academic or professional background? All I know is that he says he was a warmonger and a joe six pack, whatever that means. I'm guessing he wasn't a physicist...maybe a bouncer?
Anyway it looks like only 'nice guys' like jonathan mark and his 'truth leader teleconference' were left for the fake truth faction to dump on this Christmas. Ho ho ho!
Gold:
"Have any of these "leaders" ever provided guidance? When have they ever been on the right side (which is the opposite of everything posted above in Jonathan's post) of things? Whether it be Webster Tarpley's 2007 shenanigans, or Rolf Lindgren/Kevin Barrett's crap, or CIT's bs, these individuals are always on the wrong side of the equation. How can you call these people leaders? In my opinion, some of these people have led this entire cause down the wrong path.
I hope to see those who still care about this issue more than creating controversy that wastes everyone's time, at the White House on 1/31/2011."
http://911blogger.com/news/2009-07-28/911-truth-leader-teleconference
Erudite genius Webster Tarpley wasn't even on the list, but Richard Gage and many others were. jonathan mark's old posts have been downvoted below the threshold overnight and the new faction posts from jimd3100/Victronix/Gold/kdub already have ridiculous upvotes.
jmd3100/Victoria/Gold/kdub - the most obvious frauds on 911B
If any of the fakes that have taken over 911Blogger and TrueFaction are receiving paychecks, these people are the most obvious, imo.
jmd3100 is most likely a JREFer. jmd3100, like fake truther extraordinaire Jon Gold, pretends to believe in the veracity of just about every single piece of obvious bull shit that the government dishes about 9/11 that to everyone else with like 2 brain cells connected, does not pass the bull shit smell test (Larry Silverstein's "pull it comment" really did refer to pulling out the firefighters, all of Moussaoui's "confessions" obtained through torture should be believed, Hani Hanjour really did pilot AA77 into the first floor of the Pentagon, etc.). Yes, we're told by these frauds that we should just believe without question all of this bull shit from the same government that they claim were primary conspirators in the crime and cover-up.
kdub is most likely a sock puppet of jmd3100 or one of the other LIHOP frauds.
Victronix is a pathological liar, particularly in regards to the Pentagon attack (she builds credibility capital by going along with the controlled demolition evidence in order to then try to prop up all the other pieces of official 9/11 BS)
Gold - I think we're all thoroughly familiar with this fake truther extraordinaire that seems to be a full time agent (though, I'm not sure his paymasters are really getting their money's worth with this transparently fake idiot). I mean, just the fact that he tells people to read the official 9/11 Commission Report to learn the truth about 9/11...how much more obvious can a professional disinfo agent be?
These disinfo agents' schtick is in freefall collapse, though, as the momentum of the real truth movement continues to leave them behind in the dust. They may have managed to infiltrate and take over a few prominent web sites, but in reality, they are nobodies in the real world. Only a tiny percentage of the active 9/11 truth movement relies on those web sites for informaion - probably less than 5 percent.
In reality, the number of people who are being exposed to the obvious truth everyday about 9/11 - things that they can see with their own eyes such as the obvious demolitions of the WTC towers and the obvious impossibility of a Boeing Airliner crashing into the first floor of the Pentagon and disappearing - are orders of magnitude more than the number of people who will ever be duped be these obvious shills on 911Blogger and TrueFaction.
In fact, I regularly meet people who became 9/11 truth advocates because they saw the photographic evidence of the Pentagon attack and decide right away, "there's no fucking way that an airliner crashed there!", which is just about as many people who I've met that became 9/11 truth advocates after seeing the footage of the WTC towers being blown up. Do you think all these people, or even 10% of these people, can possibly be swayed by jmd3100, Gold, Victoria, and their ilk trying to berate them to not believe their own eyes? Me thinks not.
The fake LIHOP wing of the truth movement has already lost a long time ago. The writing - of these LIHOP frauds' obituary - was on the wall as far back as 2004 when LIHOP Fraud Extraordinaire Mike Ruppert officially resigned from the movement and threw in the towel. Everything since then has been merely the last gasps and convulsions of these pathetic disinfo fakes dieing a slow painful death and refusing to accept their obsolescence and inevitable extinction...some people will do anything for a paycheck, and there's no doubt in my mind that some of these frauds are definitely receiving a paycheck for what they are doing, albeit in vain.
"leader" teleconference call? bwahaha!
Sorry, but this is an example of the shills eating their own. As jonathan mark himself puts it (emphasis mine:)
See our archive on the "Shell Game" LIHOP scheme here.
heheh
Quite. I just think its a bit rich for Jon Gold, of all people, to claim nobody on the list has *ever* been on the 'right side of things'. Doesn't he ever get a day off?
I was referring to jonathan mark's amiable/submissive demeanour rather than his illogical demoralising.
ASSANGE ADMITS WIKILEAKS AN ISRAELI FRAUD
GORDON DUFF: ASSANGE ADMITS WIKILEAKS A FRAUD RUN BY PRESS FOR ISRAEL
December 23, 2010
Today, Julian Assange admitted that Wikileak material had been chosen by the press, not an independent organization after all. Wikileaks, in effect, admitted that it has always been a front for what Helen Thomas refers to as the Zionist controlled media. Assange, in a childish attempt at “spin” blamed the press for having too many “sensitivities ” to Israel and making Wikileaks look bad.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/12/23/gordon-duff-julian-assange-wikil...