Clueless or What? Accusations of Anti-Semitism Nix DRG's Appearance in Ireland
As noted in an article on 911b, Morgan Stack, who had arranged this appearance of David Ray Griffin on September 11, had his venue contract revoked yesterday, due to the threat of protests by "Jewish groups". Now, my initial response to this was to file it in the same place I put the account of globalresearch's problem with the ADL -- that is, as intimidation carried out by those able to erroneously conflate 9/11 Truth and hatred of Jews.
But check it out: Morgan Stack appears to be at the least a very sloppy user of the English language, or an actual anti-Semite. And here is what he made himself a target of: an article by a very pissed off indymedia user citing anti-Semitism on his website:
Effectively, Stack gave this writer a great opportunity to perpetuate the stereotype of the Truth movement as anti-Jewish through and through (and mention no planes and DEW in the process. Yay.) He says, "Stack is a perfect example of the idiocy these people spout" and based on the material he has lifted from Stack's site and included, I would agree that he is spouting some idiocy. (Q. What's worse than Truthers obsessed with numerology? A. Anti-Semitic Truthers obsessed with numerology derived from Jewish traditions, holidays, etc.) Stack's site is 911truth.ie
I titled this article "Clueless or What" because in situations like this, I always have to speculate about motive. Is Stack a hateful person, misdirecting criticism at all the adherents of a religion? Or does he just play one on the internet, screwing things up for the rest of us who would like to sanely address the role of Zionism in 9/11?
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I said it's probably the second
My gut tells me this is a cointelpro operation. It reminds me of the david shayler incident
didn't someone try to pull something similar with 24/7?
I think it was on the truthaction forum.... bears investigating!
found it... it was Lemonhokum's...
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/?q=node/206
this is where the 24/7 stuff came from...
Apparently this Jewish numerology stuff is along the same lines as that bogus Jewish cemetery story that came out a while back. Intentionally conspiracy-y sounding stuff about Israeli involvement no doubt intended to mask the actual conspiracy facts indicating Israeli involvement. We should of course try to figure out which users are promoting this stuff...
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?page=9&messageid=41363...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 247512
7/19/2007 1:04 AM
Re: BREAKING-MANHATTAN EXPLOSION Quote
Well, I think it's interesting that the mayor moved his office for two weeks to Brooklyn for some painting and carpet replacement...this was the first week...one more to go.
Yes...
And does anyone find this odd about the report:
[link to apnews.myway.com]
"There is no reason to believe whatsoever that this is anything other than a failure of our infrastructure," he said of the a 24-inch steam pipe that had been installed in 1924."
A 24" pipe that was installed in '24.
Next Tuesday is 7/24 - also Tisha B'Av.
[link to www.jewfaq.org]
"Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up."
Sept. 11, 2001 occurred on a Tuesday, the day of the week that is named after the Roman god of Mars.
Lots of strange stuff about this, including what the poster above said about the mayor moving his office temporarily.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 268906
The 24 could definitely be a code or signal.
I vote for fake "anti-Semite"
I had no idea what A Beautiful Mind was actually about! There's no need, though, to use phrases like Jew-controlled Hollywood or what not. In fact it is precisely that kind of over the top nonsense that has become so blatantly obvious as a sign of disinfo.
What I think is true is that movies like Pearl Harbor, A Beautiful Mind (assuming it really is about a guy who goes "nuts" and "conspiratorial") and The DaVinci Code (all about the illuminati, etc.) were absolutely made with 9/11 in mind. I have very little doubt of it, having seen the way disinfo around 9/11 has gone. Alex Jones is like a DaVinci Code aficionado on uppers. Mark Dice, or whatever his name is? Same DaVinci Code crap. Pearl Harbor? Come on... This much is obvious. Just like Top Gun was clearly one big recruitment ad for the air force. It's not "Jew Hollywood", it's elite opportunist Hollywood full of Zionists like Steven Spielberg. This is not controversial, or shouldn't be, but people like Morgan Stack make it sound like bigotry.
And Ghost Troop? Huh? Sounds creepy right? Well what's even more creepy (and another example of the overwrought giveaway) is that that is apparently an allusion to the KKK. See, the white sheet business with them is supposed to represent dead confederate soldiers, i.e. "ghost troops".
The whole idea is to paint 9/11 truth as a bunch of racist jew-hating nutjobs by taking some real issues like:
Hollywood collaboration with elite schemes by providing mind-controlling narrative creation through reinforcement accross various media (movies, newspapers, novels, etc.) of suggestive themes that lay the ground for acceptance of the elites' problem/reaction/solution ploys.
And having them "exposed" by the most bigoted, nuttiest sounding people they can find. Like Alex Jones. And Mark Dice. And David Icke. And David Shayler. And David Duke. And Uncle Fetzer.
Come on people, as soon as we expose these shenanigans we will have effectively castrated the cover-up. And then we win.
to put AJ with dice icke shayler duke and fetzer is ludicrious
seriously, even if you think he doesn't talk about issues related to zionism enough.
ok, I was being unfair
Hey OWN I just figured out who you are--I'm slow sometime--and I have to say that it came as a bit of a surprise since I have been pretty critical in the past. I also saw that you actually link to my site, which is I think the first time I've seen anyone do that, which of course I appreciate. I generally tend to lay off on the impersonal harsh critiques when someone actually is willing to engage in direct discussion so I'm glad you're here and that maybe we can talk about some of this as opposed to my just bitching about it.
Your defense of AJ made me think and I will clarify the comparison because I realize that putting him in a list with those others doesn't really help me get my point across. Here is my point in more detail...
9/11 was extremely well-planned. That doesn't mean they planned it perfectly, just that they planned it thoroughly. That includes having come up with a strategy in advance of the event to deal with the inevitable "conspiracy theories" and "calls for investigation" etc.
Thus I propose that much of what we know as the truth movement (especially the early truth movement) had been ready to go before 9/11. The idea of course was to pre-empt the development and evolution of a truly grassroots movement that could not be easily influenced or controlled. Influence naturally comes to those who are first to the punch, and AJ was one of the first.
Being first doesn't by itself constitute an indictment of his honesty of course. What sets off my spider sense is not HIM per se. It is the fact that he exists in a world where I am convinced also exists a coordinated plan to confuse and distract people. The others in the list are so far gone, yes, that their role in that plan seems obvious whereas AJ seems to many to have if not more integrity at the very least less distasteful and/or wrong-headed views.
Including them in the list was not meant to suggest that he is like them, but that he serves a similar purpose. How so, given they are so not similar? Well, think of it as a spectrum, or a continuum, from one extreme of pure adherence to the official line and another of pure bat-shit craziness. The PTB either want people all the way on one side or all the way on the other. The center of that spectrum is a dangerous place for the PTB to have too many people spend to much time in. I consider AJ to be on the side of the spectrum, close to that all-important center, but slightly off-center in the direction of the crazies.
Now, not to mix metaphors and confuse things, but the ide of the spectrum or continuum is important. It's a method that has been used to great effect in another sense, that of the false left/right paradigm. I just saw a great chart in the 1971 classic book "None Dare Call it Conspiracy". It's reproduced here:
Chart I and 2
#1 (false left/right)
Dictatorship<<<<<<<<<<<< Democracy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dictatorship
Communism <<<<<<<<<< Fabian Socialism >>>>>>>>>>> Fascism
#2 (more realistic one-way)
Total Govt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anarchy
Communism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Constitutional
Fascism ........................................................................Republic
Socialism ....................................................................Limited Govt
Pharoahism
Caesarism
http://www.whale.to/b/allen_b1.html
I would add Zionism to the list on the left, of course.
Now, the question for me is not so much whether AJ is exactly like those other guys--it's whether he serves to promote a similarly distorted picture of what the truth movement is and where it fits on a real or imagined spectrum, and what effect that has on people we want to convince. Not just that, but given that we are dealing with people who have dealt in fake paradigms fo so long, how might someone like AJ be contributing to that same kind of false consciousness, even while exposing much of what needs to be exposed and even while not being a total lunatic like Icke acting like one, that is).
I think, OWN, that you and many others are to be admired and commended for your energy, courage, and spirit of resistance. No doubt about that. BUT I look at AJ as a bit too much of a demagogue, a bit too much of an emotional bully, and I do believe that he misses a big part of the picture, and yes, because of his refusal to take the Zionist aspect of the conspiracy seriously--it is real, it is major, and we cannot do without a proper analysis of its role.
But of course variety is the spice of life and if we can all coexist and criticize each other but try to keep it as civil as possible (as much as we disagree I KNOW none of us want factions of truthers having fistfights at demos, right?!)
Take care, man, and keep up the good fight. I am sincere in what I believe and say and if you are too then we have absolutely no quarrel to worry about, believe me.
which website?
Is my first question. He can definitely be a demagogue I'm not defending everything the guy does. I have to disagree he does take the zionists seriously, he is just a generalist in terms of the NWO. If A doc he makes ends up being about their role in world events, would that satiate your quams with him on the subject? He has plenty of people on who are more zionist focused rivero paul craig roberts, are two that come to mind off the top of my head as regular guests. I think his out bursts are two edged swords, they cut both ways, they rally people to the cause and turn others off at the same time. Does this make him an impediment to the forward progress of the movement, I really doubt that, because the fact it's come so far in the last 2 years I've been involved is proof of that.
Alex Jones more like Lyndon Larouche
Larouche has a decent analysis of world events, including critique of the NWO type shenanigans, but he is too close to being a cult leader. His followers do not read or study outside of his program--they soak in his writings and are made to understand that independent thought and critique is not welcome. I see a lot of that with people who are into Alex Jones. They don't seem to be into reading widely--just consuming AJ's material. I know it sounds like I'm generalizing but unfortunately despite the fact that I'm sure his fans include some truly independent and open-minded thinkers the general effect is the opposite. I see him and Larouche towards the left side of that spectrum #2, but not in terms of their politics--they are for total control of peoples' minds just as are the MSM. This is what the real "NWO" wants. Go ahead and disagree but do so within their prefab parameters, then you won't threaten them with unexpected behavior, developments, evolution of consciousness-it will all go according to plan.
And then there's Fox's 24, Joel Surnow
"...According to the series’ co-writer Joel Surnow the first episode aired in November 2001, shortly after the attack on the World Trade Center in New York on September 11, 2001. However, the show was actually developed and the initial episode shot before the attack occurred.
Only days after the first episode of 24 was aired on Fox, Karl Rove appeared at the infamous November 2001 meeting of Hollywood producers and directors in which the administration called for support from Hollywood for the war on terror. That meeting included representatives from movie and television studios, including the Fox network. Surnow said Fox picked up the show with the enthusiastic support of network owner and media mogul Rupert Murdoch..."
(From: Fox's 24:propaganda thinly disguised as television programming)http://100777.com/node/1242
right
there's a chicken and egg problem too, where the media can say WELL, people are concerned about terrorism, and we have stockholders to please, bla bla. plausible deniability. that's why I think it's interesting to look at PRE-9/11 oddities like the Pearl Harbor movie in summer 2001 - 60th anniversary? What the heck is that? No, that was most likely NOT a coincidence...