David Chandler 9/11 Analysis DVD

gretavo's picture

Click here to order or donate!

David Chandler: 9/11 Analysis DVD | July 04, 2010

9/11 Analysis is a compilation of short analysis videos I have produced and uploaded to the internet over the last few years, woven together with an interpretive narrative. The individual short pieces arose one-by-one as measurements were made and insights developed, but together they constitute a coherent body of work: the total destruction of the three most prominent buildings of the World Trade Center as seen through the eyes of a physics teacher and concerned citizen.

Shown here is the concluding narrative, an appeal to take the events of 9/11 seriously, even as the events of 9/11 seem to fade into the distance. The wars of 9/11 continue. The justification of torture, the loss of civil rights, the overturning of over two centuries of democratic tradition, and the demonization of a major segment of humanity under the guise of "terrorism" are continuing legacies of 9/11.

We are in the process of creating a DVD for international distribution and are requesting contributions for this important information sharing project. Please contact David Chandler at David@MathWithoutBorders.com for donations.

David Chandler 9/11 YouTube site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgjb4oDQdQA

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willyloman's picture

You guys are going to love this...

Hi all...

Just a quick note to point out something I found on TrueFaction... they are going off about Kevin Barrett calling Cosmos disinfo or something like that... saying he focuses too much on the zionists...

Then "truebeleaguer" chimes in with this comment (I shit you not)

"'d be willing to consider the notion that no Muslims were involved in 9/11--if some actual evidence was presented for it and if it were asserted by prominent Muslims instead of wacko white boys. If Osama would make a tape denying involvement instead of explaining why he did it that would help.
As it is the "no Muslims" theory just inhibits research into the hijacker/military nexus and makes us look stupid."

well, how do you like that? I never thought I would ever see a fake Truth Advocate actually have to resort to admitting they BELIEVED the Fat Bin Laden video "confession"

some things you just never want to see...

in case you guys want to see it before they erase it... it was left today at 4:12pm

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6731&start=15

(the above link is to the page... this is to the actual comment...

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40357#40357 )

"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK

Keenan's picture

WTF? Can they prove angels don't dance on the head of a pin?

If they can't prove that angels don't dance on the head of a pin, then using their logic, can we say that the "no Angels Dancing on the Head of a Pin" theory just inhibits research into the angels/head-of-a-pin nexus and makes us look stupid?

Demanding that we prove a negative is a clever way of reversing the burden of proof on to us, which is not only unfair, it is an indication that they have no valid arguments for claiming to believe in such nonsense like the fake hijacker backstory, or the obviously fake bin Laden videos.

Do they really not understand how transparent they are making themselves to everyone else?

Let's create an imaginary alternative scenario for 9/11 and see just how silly their logic is:

1) In July 2001, An Iranian-American who is friends with the president of Iran bought the World Trade Center from an Iranian-American head of the NY Port Authority

2) An Iranian company which was started by a person who headed the Iranian Intelligence Agency took over the security of the US airports from where 4 allegedly hijacked planes took off

3) An Iranian-American-owned security company took over security at the World Trade Center prior to 9/11

4) In the year prior to 9/11, a group of duel-citizenship Iranians-Americans wrote papers calling for a "catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new pearl harbor" that would bring about an inevitable conflict between the United States and Israel.

5) Many of these dual-citizenship and pro-Iranian individuals then went on to help Bush steal the US presidential election in 2000 in order to bring themselves to power, so that their people could then become the policy-makers for the Defense Department and other critical government agencies before 9/11.

6) Hundreds of Iranian Intelligence Agents were rounded up just before and on 9/11, some with explosives/demolitions training. One particular group told the cops who arrested them, "We are not your problem. Your problem is our problem. The Israelis are your problem"

7) The Iranian Intelligence Agency warned the US that Israel was planning a major terrorist attack in the US.

8) Several vans owned by a front company for the Iranian Intelligence Agency were caught on the morning of 9/11 around New York City at key transportation hubs, some with explosives and some with residues of explosives. The vans were driven by Iranian Intelligence Agents, who were rounded up and failed lie detector tests regarding what they knew about 9/11.

9) Iran had a history of staging false flag attacks and blaming them on Israel

10) A US Army report came out on September 10, 2001, and warned that the Iranian Intelligence Agency is "ruthless and cunning" and tends to "attack US forces and blame it on Israel"

11) On 9/11, the government (now populated by dual-citizenship Iranians and pro Iranians) and the media (many of the major media companies were owned by Iranian-Americans) immediately blamed Israel for the attacks before any investigations were even started.

12) On 9/11, the Iranian president said that the 9/11 attacks "were very good for Iran". Then he corrected himself and said, "well, not very good, but they will bring immediately sympathy to our plight against Israel"

13) After 9/11, the pro-Iranian US government came out with a video tape purporting to show that the leader of Israel confessed to the attacks, but experts around the world criticized the US translation of the tape, and the person in the tape did not look identical to the Israeli leader.

Obviously, anybody who was a genuine honest truth advocate would eventually, after being exposed to all of the above facts, have to come to the conclusion the "Israelis did it" claim of the government doesn't hold water and that Iran was the obvious culprit. But with this group of TrueFaction shills, something strange apparently happens when we swap the words Israel/Israeli for Iran/Iranian (and swap the word Muslims in place of Israel/Israeli) in the above list of facts, which is the case with 9/11 in the real world (See Timeline 1992-2001: Lead Up to the Zionist Engineered War on Terror and Who Ran WTC Security on 9/11?) We enter the Twilight Zone of their illogical fantasy world in which they suddenly switch the burden of proof to those who try to point out the obvious problem with their inexplicable credulity in the OCT.

Going back to the above alternative scenario again, imagine that they said the following to their critics:

"I'd be willing to consider the notion that no Israelis were involved in 9/11--if some actual evidence was presented for it and if it were asserted by prominent Israelis instead of wacko [anti-Iranian] white boys. If the leader of Israel would make a tape denying involvement instead of explaining why he did it that would help.
As it is the "no Israelis" theory just inhibits research into the hijacker/military nexus and makes us look stupid."

Now, should other honest truth advocates give this group of people who claim to believe in the government's story the benefit of the doubt, even after 9 years of clear evidence of Israeli/Mossad involvement, and a corresponding lack of credible evidence of Muslim involvement? At what point do we declare that the only people who continue to claim to believe in the notion of LIHOP are clearly just "pretending to sleep" so that attempting to wake them up is not worth the time, no matter how loudly they snore?

Keenan's picture

Sure is quiet around these parts lately

Where is everyone? Is Gretavo on an extended vacation? Are people gone for the summer? Hello...

juandelacruz's picture

hi Keenan, i dont always

hi Keenan, i dont always post, but i make it a point to read wtcd everyday

Chris's picture

Same here, I don't post that

Same here, I don't post that often but I read the site every day(or at least check it for new stuff). Now heres Jerome Hauers contact info(publicly available). Send him some "kind" words/questions:

http://www.hauergroup.net/contact.htm

jhauer@hauergroup.net

Let him know that we haven't forgotten. He hasn't gotten back to me yet :)

Keenan's picture

will do

Perhaps someone should remind these people about what happened to various war criminals and their collaborators/propagandists when they were eventually brought to justice through various war crimes trials throughout the last century.

gretavo's picture

sorry!

Beginning of the academic year means busy for me... I did just remix the Orio Palmer song that I recorded and Scrubby remixed--I put in audio from the radio transmissions... check it out! http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/602

Keenan's picture

How can one listen to it?

Oh, I see. You have to log in to see the link.

Keenan's picture

audio remix sounds good

I assume you are a graduate student and that's why its a busy time for you? If so, congratulations on beginning your new academic year.

Keenan's picture

Hi Cosmos, good to see you are a daily reader of our site

YT

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 4648
Location: California
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Someone sent me this screenshot and it's too funny to not post.

It's from the little sleaze factory where Adam Syed churned out his conspiracy theories about me.

I do believe that is what's commonly referred to as *CRICKETS*

___________________________________

It's funny how Cosmos is too embarrassed to admit that he, like Jon Gold, reads our "site that shall not be named" every day. Whenever he comments about what he finds on our site (even though he constantly claims that its a total waste of time to read our site), he always prefaces it with, "someone sent me this screenshot" or "someone alerted me to this", etc.

Just admit it, Cosmos, you are addicted to reading or "shitty little site", aren't you?

Oh, and by the way, according to Alexa internet stats, traffic at WTCD is up another 30% from last month, whereas traffic at TrueFaction is down 40% from last month, so you are hardly one to joke about *crickets*

Alexa traffic rank

Percent of global Internet users who visit

wtcdemolition.com
1 month 0.00009 +30% Change in Reach over the trailing 1 month period

For TrueFaction.org
1 month 0.00008 -40% Change in Reach over the trailing 1 month period

In other words, Cosmos, a higher percentage of internet users visit WTCD now than your crappy TrueFaction site.

Adam Syed's picture

OUCH! lol

OUCH! lol

Keenan's picture

correction: WTCD traffic up 50%

I just checked the stats today

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/wtcdemolition.com#

Percent of global Internet users who visit
wtcdemolition.com
1 month 0.00011 +50% Change in Reach over the trailing 1 month period

For TrueFaction.org
1 month 0.00008 -40% Change in Reach over the trailing 1 month period

So, not only is traffic increasing significantly at WTCD while traffic is tanking at TrueFaction, the umber of absolute visitors to WTCD are now significantly more than TrueFaction...

gretavo's picture

cool, thanks for the data!

The fake truthers are becoming increasingly irrelevant because their role was meant to be effective in a small, contained truth movement. They are simply not equipped to deal with mass awareness which is why that has always been my primary goal. The flyers I leave around campus seem to be taken at a slightly faster clip than last year I've noticed... :)

Keenan's picture

speaking of which...

what flyers have you found to be the most effective? Care to share some pdf files of your flyers that we can print out, or are you using pre-made flyers? I was thinking about bringing a stack to the Power to the Peaceful free concert in San Francisco today.

Annoymouse's picture

history

Somehow people that lie torture and use media manipulation, always seem to get the upper hand for some time. But historicaly they tend to drop in ratings after a while..

But off course telling workers that ground zero was safe, was just a little mistake.
Along with the undefinate detention without judges and court. Or sudgesting Irak had weapons of massdestruction. The fact that Iran and Irak, was about to change to EURO instead off dollars, had and has nothing to do with it.

Like the first intervention in Iran, wich USA had to excuse for in year 2000. Removing the first democratic ellected goverment in the middle east, had nothing to do with oil.LOL

And i actually like USA. Just not its forreign policy..I mean Guatemala, San Salvador etc..Or hunting down ''commies''.Ups sorry that was also domestic policy.

But ohh i forgot i function best in closed spaces without debate from great IQ's like you.
Sorry about that i forgot..

But somehow i just tend not bealiving people using torture on kids, waging wars on lies etc.

Annoymouse's picture

Hey Gret

Been wondering what happened to your nifty white WTC cardboard models with the little red cube representing the volume of fuel on board each of the planes. Finally found it:

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/1842

You should send that model to David Chandler and put the pics in the WTCD wiki and/or compendium with higher resolution links.

Tahooey's picture

country roads

take me home, to the place, where i belong

Just saw this today, seems semi-relevant

http://snardfarker.ning.com/video/west-virginia-candidate-jeff?xg_source...

gretavo's picture

Chandler Analysis DVD "a few weeks" away...

Took the opportunity of sending a donation to ask for an ETA. Heard back from Mr. Chandler who said he's hoping for delivery in "a few weeks"...

gretavo's picture

Chandler interview 12-23

gretavo's picture

nobody's perfect--is Chandler being played by Victronix, et al?

David Chandler's site which he now shares with Jonathan Cole now contains a page warning people against the dread "Pentagon honeypot" at http://911speakout.org/?page_id=219

I don't think Mr. Chandler fully appreciates what's behind the recent effort that must have been made to push him to issue this joint statement--since Chandler seems to be a good, honest, intelligent person, it's possible that he is affording too much trust to the likes of Victoria Ashley and Jim Hoffman, and even Steven Jones (on the red/gray chips of nanothermite issue which Chandler accepts at face value).

It's interesting too how much attention is paid in the statement to CIT, but especially to their unprofessionalism. I believe that CIT's role has been precisely to put a mean ugly face on Pentagon skepticism so as to more easily convince good people like Mr. Chandler to speak out against them. Ironically, he and Cole make the point that CIT could be infiltrators--what they don't seem to get is that CIT are far from the only ones, and that there are always at least two types--those intending to repel and those intending to attract. The left hand pushes away while the right hand gathers in, eh?

The Pentagon

A joint statement by David Chandler and Jonathan Cole
Overwhelming Evidence of Insider Complicity

If you watch our videos and read the links on this site you will understand why we assert that the weight of the evidence points to the fact that 9/11 was orchestrated by insiders…

* with access to high tech military-grade nano-energetic materials (aka nano-thermite)
* with access to the infrastructure of some of the most highly secure buildings in New York over an extended period of time
* with the expertise to accomplish the most difficult demolitions in history
* with the ability to manage public perception of the event despite numerous contrary contemporaneous eyewitness reports
* with the ability to coordinate the take-downs of the twin towers with the airplane flights
* with the ability to coordinate with the military to not intercept the airplane flights
* with the ability to stage a highly coordinated cover-up, starting on the day of 9/11 itself
* with the ability to prevent ANY investigation for many months
* with the ability to stage-manage fraudulent investigations once the demand grew too loud (the 9/11 Commission report the NIST reports)

All of this evidence comes from the investigation of the World Trade Center, based on public evidence and the laws of physics. The evidence is overwhelming, consistent, persuasive, and broadly agreed upon by the “scientific wing” of the 9/11 Truth Movement. The concrete physical and video evidence leading to these conclusions narrows the field of possible perpetrators significantly.
The Pentagon

There are also anomalies in the events at the Pentagon. The biggest anomalies, in our opinion , have gotten some of the least attention.

* How could the Pentagon, the hub of the US military, have been so poorly defended that it could be hit in the first place, after the buildings in New York City had already been hit and other hijacked planes were known to still be in the air?
* Why was Norman Minetta’s testimony about Cheney’s response to the approach of the aircraft discounted in the 9/11 Commission report?
* Why was the target the newly reinforced west face of the building, occupied primarily by accountants that were tracing down what happened to the missing trillions of dollars announced just a few days earlier?
* Why would the purported hijackers perform a difficult spiral descent to hit the face of the Pentagon that had the least number of people in it, and was opposite from the offices of the Pentagon high command?
* Why would the purported hijackers risk mission failure by choosing a difficult ground level approach when they could have simply dived into the building?
* How could an untrained pilot have performed the difficult maneuvers? Was the plane flown by some kind of automatic controls and/or guided by a homing beacon?

Instead of these important questions, from very early on the focus has centered on what hit the Pentagon. The nearly unanimous testimony of over a hundred eyewitnesses, is that a large aircraft, consistent with a 757, flew very low at very high speed, clipped several light poles, and crashed into the face of the Pentagon at ground level. Still, speculation persists that the Pentagon was hit by something else, such as a Global Hawk or a cruise missile. The eyewitness testimony is consistent with the pattern of damage both inside and outside of the Pentagon. Read through the many eyewitness accounts.

What is very clear is that there is a consistent and blatant ongoing cover-up at the Pentagon. Those INSIDE the Pentagon have all the physical evidence and all the confiscated videos. They undoubtedly have the definitive proof of what hit the Pentagon, and how it was done, but they are not saying.

The problem with focusing on a protest of the Pentagon cover-up is that the population at large attributes to the military the right to keep secrets. Secrecy in wartime is understandable, if it is in furtherance of military objectives. It is not reasonable that the military should be allowed to extend this privilege to the cover-up of evidence of a monstrous crime, but the fact is, they can get away with it. The population is not willing to second guess military prerogative in matters like this. Therefore despite the absolutely blatant cover-up of the facts of 9/11 at the Pentagon, there is no public outrage, and there is no reasonable possibility that the public can be aroused on this issue.

Therefore the Pentagon is a dead-end for research. The puzzle of the Pentagon might be fascinating or intriguing, but as an avenue to determining the truth, it seems doomed to failure. The ones who want it covered up literally hold all the cards.

Fortunately the evidence at the World Trade Center makes the investigation at the Pentagon almost irrelevant. If anything essentially new (and verifiable) can be discovered at the Pentagon, fine, but the sparseness of information and the thoroughness of the cover-up at the Pentagon makes it an unlikely venue for significant new findings.
The Honey Pot

On the other hand the mystery that surrounds the Pentagon makes it an attractive target of speculation and the subject of truly wild conspiracy theories. (This kind of attractive diversion is sometimes called a “honey pot,” a “setup” to be discredited at a later time.) This is not the only instance of theories that seem designed to be easily discredited. There are groups that insist the towers at the World Trade Center were taken down by space lasers. Others claim no planes hit the Twin Towers at all: they were just holograms. What better way to tar the movement than to seed it with absurdly false theories that fuel a media circus, while making the Movement look ridiculous?

Despite popular belief, the physical evidence does not rule out that possibility that it was American Airlines Flight 77 that actually crashed into the Pentagon. Confidently asserting otherwise, then being proven wrong and discredited for sloppy research, would be disastrous for the credibility of the solid science-based research at the World Trade Center.

Why, then, the strenuous push to focus the attention of the Truth Movement onto the Pentagon? Does it sound too cynical to suggest that we are being intentionally set up? We must remember that we are in a situation where nearly 3000 people were murdered in a day not counting the thousands who have died since, and millions killed in the resulting wars. If agencies of the US government really are complicit, which the evidence shows to be the case, then the people who really know what happened are playing for keeps. Any movement with real potential for arriving at incriminating truth will certainly be highly infiltrated. This is not paranoia: it is a simple fact. The 9/11 Truth Movement must respond by policing itself and holding itself to the highest standards of intellectual rigor.
CIT (Citizen Investigation Team)

It is sometimes hard to tell the difference between simply foolish theories and intentionally planted foolish theories. The difference is generally speculative. The wisest policy is to avoid foolish theories altogether.

The generally accepted story regarding the Pentagon is that American Airlines Flight 77 was hijacked and flown to Washington DC, did a very difficult downward spiral maneuver, approached the Pentagon flying essentially eastward along Columbia Pike, descended to very low altitude, knocked over several light poles, damaged a generator sitting on the Pentagon lawn, crashed into the west face of the Pentagon at ground level, at very high speed, and created a trail of damage inside the outer three rings of the Pentagon in perfect alignment with the exterior trail of destruction.

Enter CIT, the Citizen Investigation Team. This grass-roots-sounding organization consists essentially of two individuals from California who fly back to Washington, conduct interviews with a number of witnesses on video who reconstruct the flight paths (from memory, years after the event) as being significantly further to the north than the generally accepted flight path. A north flight path is inconsistent with the trail of damage, both inside and outside the Pentagon, so this flight path would require that all the damage was intentionally and elaborately faked. CIT then asserts that since the north flight path is inconsistent with the damage in the building, the plane did not actually hit the building. Instead it pulled up and flew over the Pentagon perfectly timed with an explosion set off in the Pentagon. The plane was hidden by the explosion as it flew off and blended in with general air traffic. (How the passengers were disposed of is a question they don’t consider.) Interestingly, nearly all of the people they interview are certain that the plane hit the building and none directly confirm the flyover hypothesis. The best they can do is elicit sketches of northerly flight paths that actually differ significantly from each other. They compile their thirteen interviews in a feature-length video called “National Security Alert” (with an eyebrow-raising acronym shared with the National Security Agency: NSA), then further cherry-pick their witnesses and present the four who are most in agreement with their own views, and add a musical sound track for a second video they call their “Smoking Gun” version.

Think about it just for a minute. The Pentagon is completely ringed by major highways, including Interstate 395 which had stand-still traffic that morning. Any flyover of the Pentagon would have been witnessed by hundreds of people from all directions. If a plane flew over the Pentagon at low altitude leaving a major explosion in its wake, anyone who saw it would certainly think they were witnessing a plane bombing the Pentagon. Yet there were no such reports, and some who were questioned later, who were in a good position to see any flyover, said they did not see any such thing.

The CIT videos don’t qualify as scientific studies. Their witnesses are not representative of the overall eyewitness pool, the witnesses accounts are far from contemporaneous with the events, and the conversational style of the interviews frequently leads the witnesses. Who knows what conversations preceded the videotaped interviews to either shape or filter the testimonies? The “researchers” ignore the fact that none of their witnesses directly confirms their primary hypothesis: a Pentagon flyover. Some of the witnesses contradict themselves, but this does not count against their credibility. Furthermore, there is no mention of the voluminous eyewitness testimony that supports the conventional path in line with the path of destruction. Rather than subject their work to peer review, even internal peer review within the 9/11 Truth Movement, they simply disparage any who take issue with their methods or their results, and instead rely on a list of questionable endorsements. They posted a literal “enemies list” on the internet in which they attacked the character of those who disagree with them. [Ed. Note: we are not yet on that list, but after posting this essay we will surely qualify.] CIT has even gone so far as to disparage their own witnesses, accusing the driver of the taxi that was hit by a light pole of being a co-conspirator with the perpetrators of the crime. CIT has gone out of its way to make themselves a highly divisive issue in the 9/11 Truth movement. The “Flyover theory” had recent success in getting main stream media coverage on the Jesse Ventura “Conspiracy Theory” show. Whether CIT in fact represents an orchestrated attempt to splinter the 9/11 Truth Movement or not, it is having a splintering effect. “Divide and Conquer” has a long history, going back to Caesar in the Gallic Wars, and Alexander the Great before him. CIT is attempting to become the public face of the 9/11 Truth Movement. If it succeeds, the 9/11 Truth Movement will be seen as vicious, mean spirited, crazy, and ultimately discredited.

If the Pentagon issue intrigues you, we highly recommend that you balance your reading with the literature that sets Pentagon theorizing into perspective. Here is a short recommended reading list. (All of the authors are on CIT’s enemies list, but read them and decide about their credibility for yourself.)

In conclusion, we urge you not to be taken in by divisive speculation masquerading as research.
Recommended Reading

To Con a Movement: Exposing CIT’s PentaCon ‘Magic Show’ by Victoria Ashley

9/11 and the Pentagon Attack: What Witnesses Described

A Critical Review of ‘The PentaCon – Smoking Gun Version’

Google Earth Exposes Pentagon Flyover Farce or Critiquing PentaCon (Smoking Crack Version) by Jim Hoffman

American Memory Project of the Library of Congress — Interviews shortly after 9/11 by witnesses to various aspects of the Pentagon events.
Note in particular the interviewing style compared to the CIT interviews. There is no leading the witness. There is no agenda to prove a particular point. The interviewees are allowed to express themselves freely and fully with no coaching. Several of the witnesses interviewed here are also on the CIT videos. Notice the differences in the overall tone as well as the details of their stories.

The National Security Alert video and the The PentaCon: Eyewitnesses Speak, Conspiracy Revealed (Smoking Gun Version) are available to view online on various CIT web sites.

Keenan's picture

Yes, looks like the Jim Hoffman camp really did a number on

Chandler. As David Chandler is fairly new to the 9/11 truth movement, he may be a bit naive in regards to the more subtle and sophisticated methods of disinformation that have been honed for decades, or in some cases hundreds/thousands of years.

There has been a raging debate within A&E911T and among the WTC demolition research community over the last few months, a sort of Battle for the Hearts and Minds of the most credentialed/important personalities, over the Pentagon issue. It appears that things are coming to a head, and are getting quite ugly, according to some of the email chains I've been privy to, with certain individuals inside A&E911T demanding that people take a hard stand against the "disruptors" (the skeptics of the AA77 crash at the Pentagon) and to kick them out of their organization and whatever other groups they can, and then declare it a "honeypot issue".

It's unfortunate that David Chandler has been played like a fool by the likes of Jim Hoffman, Victoria Hoffman, and a few likely infiltrators in A&E911T, who are in reality completely out of step with the vast majority of the 9/11 truth movement on the issue. Apparently, Chandler spent an evening with Jim and Victoria Hoffman when he was in Oakland on the weekend of 9/11 and "came away with a heightened appreciation for their work."

He concluded that "Both of them are deep thinking, well informed, and insightful, and should not be dismissed lightly. I recommend that anyone serious about 9/11 issues read what they have written. Let's put it this way. Anyone who says they are serious about 9/11 but hasn't at least grappled with what they have written is on the fringe, in my estimation."

That last assertion by Chandler illustrates just how thoroughly misinformed Chandler is now on the issue. Hoffman has apparently managed to convince Chandler that all of us Pentagon OCT skeptics have not even read or bothered to become familiar with the apparently brilliant and irrefutable arguments of the "other side", i.e., any of Hoffman's/Victoria's/Arabesque's work on the issue, even though many of us have in fact been following their "work" for the last 5 years and are intimately familiar with it and how deceptive and lacking in merit it actually is.

Apparently, now that Chandler has sort of bonded with the Hoffmans, or at least established personal connections with them, it is completely inconceivable to him that these very nice and seemingly genuine colleagues/friends of his could possibly be pathological liars, when the fact is it is very hard to find even one true claim or honest argument in all of their hit pieces against CIT and other skeptics of the Pentagon OCT.

Chandler apparently doesn't see the need to fact check any of Hoffman's (or Legge's for that matter) work, he apparently just assumes that Hoffman is being honest and thorough with his "research" and "critiques" of his detractors. Chandler's thinking is probably along the lines that since Hoffman's papers contain lots of links and footnotes, it looks good enough, and Hoffman wouldn't dare be deceiving people, so it must be the other side who is doing the deceiving. The same applies to Legge's worthless but professional-looking papers on the issue.

The strategy of Hoffman's Pentagon disinformation camp seems to be to get to the newer members of the research community before they have had a chance to look very deeply into the issue, and convince them through creating the false artificial consensus, by surrounding them with a few credentialed scientists with undeserved or unquestioned credibility capital, to repeatedly and deceitfully argue over and over again that, "CIT and all of the Pentagon OCT skeptics have been thoroughly debunked and its now just a mop-up operation to clean our ranks of these silly disruptors and move on from this honey-pot issue once and for all".

It can be a long road for many people to get it in their head that people they thought were 100% vested in getting at the truth have no such interest at all. It's really frustrating when otherwise smart and perceptive people can be so naive and blind to the slimy, deceitful tactics of people they have decided to put their trust and faith in for whatever reason.

The fact is that the Hoffman Pentagon disinfo camp can't defend their position on an intellectual level so the best they can do is quietly ban their opponents and then pretend like no one is able to debunk their clever-looking but actually worthless disinfo.

I think the way to combat this is to use numbers to our advantage, to get people like Chandler to realize just how out of step with the rest of the truth movement the Hoffman camp really is. In an interesting new development, 911blogger.com moderator John Wright, aka LeftWright, has started his own blog with two polls: "What do you think happened at the Pentagon?" and "Do you use 911blogger?".

The results so far are very telling:

AA 77 hit the building...........................0
A large Boeing aircraft hit the building.........0
Some kind of airborne vehicle hit the building...4
Nothing airborne "hit" the building.............16
I don't know, we need a complete investigation..18

Are you a 911blogger user?
Yes..................12
No, I've never heard of it.....0
No, I've been banned/moderated...12
No, I'd like to be................1

LeftWright's blog is at
http://theleftwrightletters.blogspot.com/

and it's called "The LeftWright Letters," which he claims will be a place for free and open exchange of ideas and information:

"The main purpose of the blog is to discuss topics and issues which may not be appropriate for other sites or for which I think this is a good venue to discuss them further or with a different mindset ("outside of the box" or whatever cliche works for you)."

Is this a sign that LeftWright is willing to open his eyes to the blatant infiltration and manipulation of 911Blogger?

Be sure to vote on those two polls and chime in to the comments as well...

Keenan's picture

I would have to disagree with your assertion that CIT are

infiltrators tasked with trying to repel people from the Pentagon evidence. CIT are not perfect, but I see no evidence of such an agenda that some people ascribe to them, rather, what I see is a lot of hot air by those who seem to want to keep people away from looking at the evidence that CIT and P4T have compiled. CIT may be guilty of being overly strident at times against their detractors, but the reality is that for the vast majority of the truth movement, they are actually getting people more interested in the issue, not repelling them.

Their Youtube video of Nation Security Alert has over 300,000 views now and the opinion is running

2,277 likes, 125 dislikes

This notion of CIT being seen by the truth movement as disruptors and beyond the pale, or whatever, seems to be the case mainly among the small handful of people who control 911Blogger and a few other places where these frauds and their dupes dominate. I think people are being persuaded to believe that is the case by the use of exaggerations and outright misrepresentations of the facts, mostly by the usual suspects.

gretavo's picture

we can agree to disagree

I would bet my bottom dollar that if indeed Jim and Victoria had a talk with Chandler about the Pentagon, they probably leaned heavily on the image of CIT as bullies and jerks to drive their point home--not surprising therefore that CIT figured prominently in Chandler (and Cole's) statement. CIT therefore is shown to be an effective tool of the cover up. Whether or not that was CIT's intention isn't something I can prove, but I definitely suspect it to be the case.

kate of the kiosk's picture

effective tool

very divisive.  and in this article by Chandler/Cole, it's not so much that they are saying a 757 definitively hit the pentagon, but that the perpetrators controll all the physical and 100+ witness testimonial evidence:

"...The eyewitness testimony is consistent with the pattern of damage both inside and outside of the Pentagon. Read through the many eyewitness accounts.

What is very clear is that there is a consistent and blatant ongoing cover-up at the Pentagon. Those INSIDE the Pentagon have all the physical evidence and all the confiscated videos. They undoubtedly have the definitive proof of what hit the Pentagon, and how it was done, but they are not saying...."

gretavo's picture

I disagree with the characterization of the eyewitness testimony

as being consistent with the damage. certainly it is not consistent with the damage (or lack thereof) outside the Pentagon. in fact I clicked on the link to I think Hoffman's site that Chandler included and that was the one aspect they didn't even try to explain away--the lack of any harm to the lawn outside the Pentagon.

Adam Syed's picture

But I don't think they're jerks and bullies

They're just not milk-and-sugary (dare I say "LeftWrightesque") ;) when it comes to warding off stupid debunker nonsense.

Barrett is another person who has had to ward off an untold number of attacks, yet when he does the warding off, that's when the other side cries (pseudo-)foul and insists that Barrett started it, that Barrett's the disruptor, etc.

To quote Barrett from his exchange with Gold:

"Jon,

Had you not attacked me, I would not have attacked you.

Is that simple enough?"

Adam Syed's picture

Agreed, Keenan...

And Gretavo, this is one area where you and I sharply disagree. You have postulated that because CIT are in the eye of the storm of Pentagon controversy, they could be intentional disruptors.  Yes, I agree with Keenan that perhaps they've been "strident" in responding to "critics," (heavy emphasis on scare quotes) but this is to be expected when disinformation specialists attack their very significant historical findings with debunker-style nonsense.  Dylan Avery was every bit as "strident" when dealing with the Loose Change detractors at times.

For the record, since Keenan brought up David Chandler's acceptance of Jim Hoffman's "research," I was made privy to an email chain which I then shared with Keenan.  Without revealing the recipients or publishing any other messages from the chain, I can tell you that Chandler wrote 4 messages on this topic (I think it's important this stuff be known since Chandler is influential).  They are as follows (bolding mine):

(1)

Best case scenario, CIT is way out of balance.

1.  CIT's claims of a flyover have been thoroughly debunked by Jim Hoffman
2.  CIT is myopic in its preoccupation with it's tiny piece of the puzzle.
3.  Take a look at how CIT, and its supporters like Adam Ruff and Adam Syed, treat people who disagree with their positions. [Upon seeing this, I promptly defriended him on FB]

4.  CIT is making treatment of CIT the issue.

(2)

If you haven't been exposed to Jim Hoffman's
debunking of CIT you haven't come up to speed.  This is inflammatory
stuff, so you really should quit broadcasting uninformed opinions about
this until you get informed.  Here are some starters.
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentacon/index.html
http://visibility911.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=511573
--David Chandler

(3)

While you're at it, read
http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/05/critical-review-of-pentacon-smoking-gun.html
--David Chandler

(4)

I agree with [xxxxx].  We probably don't know what really happened at the
Pentagon, but it is peripheral to our case and our cause.  I stepped in
only to raise an alarm at what looks to me like uninformed off-topic
ranting with divisive and distractive potential. 

By the way, I spent an evening with Jim Hoffman and Victoria Ashley (Hoffman)
when I was in Oakland on the weekend of 9/11 and came away with a
heightened appreciation for their work.  Both of them are deep thinking,
well informed, and insightful, and should not be dismissed lightly.  I
recommend that anyone serious about 9/11 issues read what they have
written.  Let's put it this way.  Anyone who says they are serious about
9/11 but hasn't at least grappled with what they have written is on the
fringe, in my estimation.

I've now had my say and don't have the time, energy, or inclination to engage further on this thread.

--David Chandler

 

 

 

Well, Mr. Chandler, I have studied Hoffman's stuff in depth and found it, to paraphrase Zwicker, "tricky and unreliable, in fact, as flimsy as the official story [he tries] to defend."

Adam Syed's picture

breaking down Chandler's first message

1.  CIT's claims of a flyover have been thoroughly debunked by Jim Hoffman

I think we at WTCD realize that's bullshit.

2.  CIT is myopic in its preoccupation with it's tiny piece of the puzzle.

Uuh, hell-LO?  That can be thrown right back in your face Mr. Chandler!  Aren't you a bit myopic in your specific preoccupation with the WTC demolition?

3.  Take a look at how CIT, and its supporters like Adam Ruff and Adam
Syed, treat people who disagree with their positions.

One of the hallmark tactics of disinformation is to accuse others of what you yourself are guilty of.  People like myself and Adam Ruff, and Craig and Aldo, have simply DEFENDED ourselves from the people who started it --- Jim Hoffman and company.  They started it with hit pieces, obvious from the titles "To Con a Movement" and "A Critical Review of Pentacon: Smoking CRACK Version."  Then, when Ruff, myself and I were simultaneously banned (from 911B) while in mid-debate with Erik Larson,  we protested.  We raised our voices.  We sent emails, to a large number of recipients, crying foul of censorship at blogger.  We were the truth tellers.  This has nothing to do with "disagreeing with a position."  I am friends with many people in this world with whom I have sharply more profound disagreements than the disagreements with other 9/11 activists over relative minutiae. It has everything to do with calling out the red flags of disinformation when it is most apparent.

4.  CIT is making treatment of CIT the issue.

Once again, they and their supporters have had to make it the issue when they were the ones were were attacked unprovoked from the likes of the Hoffman camp.

It's called calling a spade a spade.


Hoffman gained much credibility capital with his promotion of the WTC demolition.  He then used that to prop up MANY *other* aspects of the OCT.  Of course, here at WTCD we already know that.

 

 

In conclusion, what was that, Gretavo, about...

"Abadee abadee abadee... that's all folks!"

Thanks for playing Mr. Chandler --- you're OUTAHERE!!!!

gretavo's picture

not so fast!

There's a big difference between someone who is being played (Chandler) and someone who is playing (Steven Jones, imo). Chandler has apparently had an unsurprising negative reaction to CIT (as I did) with the difference that he fell under the sway of Hoffman and Victronix in the process (which I did not.) As a result, Mr. Chandler may have lost sight of the importance of treating ALL speculation about the Pentagon, including the OCT, as unproven. This is, in my opinion, where his apparent endorsement of Hoffman is most problematic--the idea that a 757 probably did crash into the Pentagon based not on direct positive evidence but on the *absence* of evidence contrary to the supposition, which is getting one's logic backwards. I had considered myself writing to Chandler on the subject but now it seems that since he has been subjected to "the treatment" of CIT and their supporters on one side and the OCT apologists on the other, it would be an uphill battle to make him see reason.