Another blow for the disinformationists promoting the official flight 77 story

Let's flashback for a moment: In the wake of CIT's National Security Alert receiving widespread endorsements, and the 2.5 hour debate between Ranke and Bursill in which Ranke won hands down (as conceded by Bursill), the flight-77-hit-the-pentagon crew went into overdrive mode to try and defend the idea that the north path witnesses (which of course are always referred to as "CIT's witnesses") were somehow refuted by "dozens more south path witnesses."
The pair of persons I refer to as Larson & Larson Inc. got busy with their blogs, Adam Larson composing the entry and Erik posting it to blogger, entitled "The South Path Impact: Documented."
It is very important to remind everyone that with the lone, isolated exception of Chris Sarns (who decided to hate CIT after having been convinced by their work), no other 757-impact theorist tries to argue for a North of Citgo flight path impacting the building.
Instead, the modus operandi from the "CIT debunkers" is to try and defend the idea that the NoC witnesses must be mistaken, and/or contradicted by "dozens of SoC" witnesses. This is because it's obvious to anyone that the directional damage beginning with light pole no. 5 and continuing all the way to the C ring of the Pentagon delineates a very specific straight line. Any deviation in the flight path and the plane couldn't have caused all the damage.
SO, movin on...
It's very interesting to note that in Larson & Larson Inc.'s Mark Roberts style attempt at debunking, the VERY FIRST "SOUTH OF CITGO" WITNESS they cite is a man named Albert Hemphill:
1) Albert Hemphill
At the Navy Annex, “peering out of the window looking at the
Pentagon.... the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my
window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the
Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be
either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it
had been following Columbia Pike.” He also gives the wing bank
(remember, north path means left high) “He was slightly left wing down
as he appeared in my line of sight […] As he crossed Route 110 he
appeared to level his wings […] as he impacted low on the Westside of
the building
So, the casual reader is supposed to read these words (printed, second hand words by the way) and be convinced that it's an account that contradicts the NoC witnesses. The main words used to spin are "over my right shoulder." Larson deceptively conflates "right shoulder" and the the notion of "right [south] of gas station."
Two days ago, Craig Ranke successfully reached Albert Hemphill and recorded the conversation. Guess what? The dude actually confirms, unambiguously confirms the NoC path, thereby dealing a death blow to Larson & Larson Inc.'s pathetic attempt to undermine serious investigation into 9/11.
Even in the original printed quoted above, Hemphill clearly states "directly over the annex" which in and of itself contradicts the official path, that being south of Columbia Pike at all times. The Annex is on the North side of the Pike. But it still didn't stop Larson & Larson Inc. from grasping at the "over my right shoulder" thing.
Listen to Craig Ranke's conversation with Albert Hemphill, the "no. 1 south path witness," and listen to him confirm that when the plane passed the gas station it passed it "from the cemetery side" which would be the NoC path, thereby corroborating every other eyewitness interviewed in person who was in a good position to judge.
http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/1/Albert-Hemphill-5-24-2010.mp3
Of course, Hemphill still maintains the plane hit, but you can hear the cognitive dissonance kick in as Ranke explains the implications of NoC. He sounds genuinely mystified and quite intrigued. He actually sounds kind of enthusiastic over the idea of watching NSA when Craig mails him a hard copy.
Interestingly, when explained the implications of NoC vs SoC, he doesn't then change his story and say, "Oh well, if the physical damage was over there, I must obviously be wrong about the plane flying over here." In other words, he doesn't defer to the physical damage path. He maintains that he saw the plane fly where he says it did.
But anyway, what a blow for Larson & Larson Inc.! Their very first "south of citgo" witness has unequivocally confirmed the "north of citgo" approach!
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Okay, in semi-fairness
to Chris Sarns, debate about CIT should not be personal -- that is, he can debate their conclusions without being said to "hate them" as if he was a spurned paramour. (I don't know -- was he?)
The point at which many people, including myself, part ways with CIT is the point at which they claim they have "proved flyover." I don't think they have. I think they have produced a body of testimony which flatly contradicts the SOC flight path and attendant events, such as the downing of the lightpoles. This is very valuable. Demonstrating that Lloyde England's account of events is full of internal contradictions and is frankly just flat out bizarre is also very valuable.
CIT has hooks hook in people who agree with them about these things, because it's true: if the plane was on the NOC path then it apparently did not cause the damage at the Pentagon. Flyover is possibly the most reasonable inference that can be drawn from this testimony if it is accepted at face value. But it's a logical inference at this point; it isn't proof. More eyewitness testimony about the flyover itself would help, as would finding a large passenger jet in a deep ocean floor trench (hint: Lost reference).
Now the thing that makes me lose patience with CIT is when they bring out some techniques that I have seen over and over again in online debate forums when someone needs to add intimidation to the argument. Maybe that's what Chris is reacting to.
there's something fishy about CIT
And frankly I don't think their work is important enough to make all the discord worth it. Since it exists however, we may agree that the north side eyewitnesses they found are problematic for the official story. But so much else is, why dwell there?
i do
I think the work of CIT is extremely important. They have documented multiple eyewitness accounts that corroborate each other and also point to big problems for the official theory regarding the Pentagon. Unlike 'hearing bombs', these people had visual confirmation of a plane and it's path.
Unless someone has something I haven't seen regarding CIT, the actions by CIT seem on-par with the actions of anyone forced to deal with certain personalities within this 911 Truth Movement.
Yes
Precisely.
If I lived out in California, spent thousands of $$$ on multiple trips across the country in order to personally speak to eyewitnesses in a sincere effort to uncover the truth, and I was being hindered by the clear liars which are the 757-impact theorists, I likely would also have said "enough is enough" and done something similar to what they did with their "Face to the Name" thread.
Creating that thread was tactically a bad move on CIT's part and they now realize this. But what CIT did was a backlash to the avalanche of disinfo used to counter their work.
It was that "face to the name" thread which caused Sarns to get "sincerely pissed" as he said on one comment, and "turn against" CIT. Problem is, he had already been impressed with NSA and was very compelled by the NoC witnesses. Since he had to do his 180 degree flip after having praised the video, he attempted to embrace something no other CIT detractor will: a NoC Impact. It's been interesting watching the embarrassing silence as Vic, Bursill, etc. never chime in to support him on his NoC Impact Theory (known otherwise as the "fly into" theory in his words). Granted, they're voting up his posts because his primary motive is to attack CIT at any cost.
I still have yet to see anything "fishy" about CIT. Yes, they can come off as a little aggressive, but as jpass said, they are "forced to deal" with certain personalities, ones who are truly not friendly to either CIT in particular or the truth in general. Dylan Avery used to get just as impatient and strident when the JREFers tried to howl down his work. The big difference between the anti-LooseChangers and the anti-CITers is that the anti-CITers claim to be truthers themselves and claim to reject the official story.
People are beginning to see through it all though. These so called truthers' schtick is: "We really are truth seekers, we really are. We have been lied to. But there's no evidence for controlled demolition [though they seem to have given up on that one], AA77 really did hit the Pentagon and UA93 really did crash intact into the ground."
ditto
i may not agree with all their conclusions, but i like their witness and testimony gathering. i consider this important information to form my own conclusions
You know...
I really don't think I care about their tactics. It seems to me CIT should be applauded and are true-to-life heroes for what they have sacrificed in what seems to be an honest quest for the truth. I'd be honored to meet them one day and say thank you.
Any place (911blogger.com) that claims to be alternative and truth-seeking...but moderates all blog entries...secretly bans people...moderates comments...
I mean really...I'm 30 years old and I have a couple of moderators making sure my blog entries are worthy of consumption. What kind of movement is this anyway? It's ridiculous and should creep out anyone claiming to be for truth, trust and transparency. If a user wants to talk about space beams to discredit a movement, ban his ass. Don't moderate all incoming material. It makes no sense unless you want to control the dialog.
Well yeah...
given some of the stuff that HAS been published in the blog section there recently. There are clearly multiple standards at work, and at the risk of sounding like a certain pugnacious lihopper, some of it is downright embarrassing.
Jpass,
Care to chime in?
http://911blogger.com/news/2010-05-25/911-pentagon-eyewitnesses-plane-hi...
Adam
Thanks for the invite but I think I've met my quota for this week.
n/m it's pretty obvious.