What's Up With 'Snowcrash's' Idiotic Insistance That 9/11 Was Both LIHOP and MIHOP?

I really don't understand how intelligent-sounding bloggers like 'Snowcrash' can intelligently argue against Jon Gold's ridiculous denial of CD, but then go on to push such an asinine and convoluted scenario of 9/11 being, "a conspiracy to co-opt a terrorist attack and enhance it by monitoring and infiltrating the terrorist cell to ensure its success, blowing up buildings and sabotaging air defense."
Does 'Snowcrash' really believe that it is logical and sane for the perps to believe that merely by monitoring and infiltrating a "terrorist cell", they can insure its success on such a complex and massive operation that will result in a transformation of the world for generations to come and accomplish such critically important goals? That they would be 100% sure that the allegedly fanatic islamic terrorists (or were they coke sniffing, strip bar gambling pork eating terrorists?) would successfully hijack the planes and not miss the targets so that the WTC towers would not be sitting there rigged with explosives with no alibi to explain why they exploded and collapsed? Does 'Snowcrash' really think it is logical to assume the the perps would pin all their hopes on such a risky and unlikely scenario?
http://www.911blogger.com/node/21662#comment-219946
Tip
Harrit and others, if you are reading this, invoke the 9/11 commissioners' own statements, as frequently as humanly possible.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/20218
A conspiracy is a crime committed by two or more people. A criminal cover-up constitutes a conspiracy. Therefore, there was a criminal conspiracy involving the 9/11 commission. Such a conspiracy is just as outrageous as a conspiracy to co-opt a terrorist attack and enhance it by monitoring and infiltrating the terrorist cell to ensure its success, blowing up buildings and sabotaging air defense. Also, BE SURE to point out the parallels to the Moscow apartment bombings and also repeatedly, repeatedly mention the anthrax attacks and the links to Jerome Hauer.
These points are necessary to drive the spin doctors into a corner. Hard. Force these people to comment on the comments of the 9/11 commissioners and ask them whether or not they find this acceptable in light of the enormous effects of 9/11 on the world. Do so over and over.
When the objection "somebody would have talked" is raised, DO NOT say: "Well some projects were kept secret, such as the Manhattan project, etc. etc.", but PLEASE remind these people that EVERYBODY WAS TALKING. BEFORE and AFTER.
"Leader follows leader from bad to worse, as though by a malign law of nature. One ruler, evil or stupid or violent, breeds another more evil or stupid or violent." — Liz McAlister
So, the two possibilities that 'Snowcrash' proposes for 9/11 is either 1) a conspiracy to cover-up incompetence and sloppiness, or 2) a LIHOP/MIHOP co-opting a terrorist cell?
And, 'Snowcrash' really puts credence into Senator Bob Graham, and all the other official lying sources that push the phony "Al Queda" and islamofascist terrorist backstory in all it various colors and shapes and sizes, with no credible evidence to back up any of that nonsense?
I guess when the 9/11 OCT version 2.0 is rolled out - in which "bombs" in the WTC are conceded but blamed on the "terrorists" - Snowcrash will be right out there in front with Jon Gold in spearheading this crap. When it comes to the most grotesque and absurd core of the 9/11 OP, Snowcrash and Jon Gold are best buddies in pretending to give total credence to anything having to do with all the absurd and unprovable LIHOP slop, whether if from Bob Graham, the 9/11 Commission Report, interrogations of tortured detainees, kangaroo court trials, lying mainstream media reports, Sibel Edmonds, etc. An a-priori assumption of honesty with those sources, even when many of them are mouthpieces of the prime suspects that Snowcrash pins the 9/11 "conspiracy" on, just does not pass the BS detector test and smells really, really bad.
I don't believe that 'Snowcrash' is a complete idiot. Like Jon Gold, 'Snowcrash's' true agenda is becoming all too transparent. To blame such a horrendous, world-changing, hate-generating act on the mythical "islamofascist menace" whose guilt, let alone existence, has not been established with anything resembling a reasonable standard of proof, points to at least 2 possibilities in my mind: 1) Snowcrash is an islamaphobe or has fallen for the engineered and heavily propagandized islamaphobic "terrorist bogeyman" meme, or 2) Snowcrash is helping to shift blame away from some of the actual perpetrators.
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I'm not yet convinced
that Snowcrash is a bad apple. I have disagreed with him on several occasions. I think Snowcrash is not an islamophobe but there is that part of his psyche (and many truthers) who is so heavily influenced by the nature of the propaganda that he doesn't want to "deny" that some dark skinned Arabs were involved AS WELL as Bush/Cheney.
He does embrace both sides of the fence though. Has anyone noticed that he and Chris Sarns are the only people in the entire movement who try to reconcile a North-of-Citgo flight path with an impact at the Pentagon?
Yes, I was just going to mention that
The fact that Snowcrash is also one of the ones who insist that AA77 impacted the Pentagon is very telling. The only reason at this point for someone to continue to insist that the OCT of AA77 having crashed at the Pentagon is true, despite the fact that the 13 verified and credible witnesses closest to the approach with the best view unanimously confirm that the official south of Citgo damage path was faked (which Snowcrash agrees with), and the fact that there was no way that AA77 could have impacted the Pentagon at the location of the damaged wall on the first floor without hitting light poles and/or performing impossible g-force maneuvers (not to mention the inexplicable absence of expected identifiable debris and lack of damage to the building/lawn, etc), is because you cannot reconcile a no AA77 crash with the insistence of the truth of the "islamofascist hijackers" backstory.
I don't know if Chris Sarns also claims to believe in the islamofascist hijacker nonsense, but for Snowcrash, the pattern is certainly consistent with that of the other fake truthers who insist on the truth of both the OCT of AA77 and the OCT of the scary 'moooozlem' hijackers.
David Griffin: MIHOP/LIHOP is NOT Divisive For the Movement
On Kevin Barrett's Fair & Balanced radio show of August 25, 2009, David Ray Griffin weighed in on whether or not using the MIHOP/LIHOP labels are a divisive wedge issue in the 9/11 Truth Movement. DRG gave an emphatic NO!
http://noliesradio.org/archives/300
At 36:41 into the show we have this exchange:
Kevin Barrett:...and since I got a question from Jon Gold, another uh, long time hard working 9/11 activist, about divisive wedge issues like you know LIHOP vs MIHOP and, you know, we talked about possible Israeli Involvement or not and things like that. What..what's your thought about uh, the issue of possible Israeli involvement uh in gen...in...as, uh, that particular issue and the question of these wedge issues and how do we deal with them in the movement?
DRG: Well, uh, two things to say about, uh first of all on that other, the, uh, the LIHOP vs MIHOP, is, is really no longer an, an issue, uh, because once you see that the towers were brought down by, uh, explosives - pre-planted explosives - uh, then [laughs] LIHOP - Letting 9/11, uh, Happen on Purpose - is not an option - you can't just Let steel-framed high rise buildings come down at free fall speed, uh [laughs] into their own foot print. It takes, uh, enormous preparation um. So, that at one time might have been a divisive issue, but it really isn't any more for, for people who are, uh, somewhat conversant with the evidence.
[...]
Note to Jon Gold: DRG's take is that you are full of crap. Since DRG has about 10,000 times the level of credibility and respect within the movement than do you and your tiny little clique of LieHOP Deniars, I'd say you are obsolete and completely discredited as a "9/11 activist" or "truth advocate". Please resign from the movement, but for real this time.
why is Jon Gold submitting questions to such a divisive figure?
I mean, Kevin Barrett is a wife-beating holocaust denier, isn't he? I guess Jon Gold being a WTCHolocaust Denier it might make sense...
I hope Griffin was more open
I hope Griffin was more open with Barrett about his views on possible Israeli involvement in 9/11 than he was with me. He was very short with me and made it clear he didn't want to "go there". Jon Gold is a joke.
DRG and Zionists
I do think that Griffin leans a bit too much to the "blame Bush" side of things, but then let's face it--while there is a tremendous amount of circumstancial evidence suggesting Zionist involvement, the hardest evidence we have, and which Griffin covers, is the physical anomalies at the Pentagon and WTC, the lack of evidence for the official story, and the clear efforts by the Bush admin to capitalize on the lies and cover up the truth.
At this point I can't argue with his success in producing excellent work AND getting important endorsements. Publisher's Weekly selected The New Pearl Harbor Revisited as its pick of the week--would that have happened if DRG was seen as a "da jooz done it!" kind of guy? Probably not, however unfair that perception of people who explore the role of Zionists in 9/11 is.
What we need to do is to keep the movement internally aware of the need to fully investigate every aspect including Israeli involvement when we get over the first hurdle of denialism. Criticizing Griffin too much would be killing the goose that lays golden eggs. I for one am heartened every time I hear of the USG busting another Israeli spy--not everyone in the USG is corrupt, and I'm sure MANY people are well aware of the threat from our little "ally". The fact that it's the threat that "dare not speak its name" should not lead us to think that we are alone in our concern...
response to US action against Israeli spies? Suprise!
...it's jew-hatred!
Steve Rosen: CIA, FBI paranoid about Mossad
Oct. 21, 2009
E.B. SOLOMONT, JPost correspondent in NEW YORK , THE JERUSALEM POST
Charges of espionage against US Defense Department scientist Stewart Nozette reflect "extreme views" against Israel that could harm US-Israel relations, former AIPAC staffer Steve Rosen told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.
Rosen, AIPAC's former foreign policy chief who was accused, with Keith Weissman, of passing along classified information, said it was revealing that Israel was inserted into the narrative of Nozette's entrapment and subsequent arrest. The case against Rosen and Weissman was dismissed last spring.
"One of the things that our case revealed is the very extreme views that are held by some in counterintelligence agencies of the CIA and FBI about Israel," Rosen said. "They believe that the Mossad spied on the US on a huge scale and they believe that the Pollard case was the tip of some sort of iceberg.
"When you keep repeating that the Mossad is spying on America, Israel is harming the United States, of course it harms the alliance between Israel and the US," he continued. "The current case is even more peculiar because the government of Israel did nothing.
"It's revealing that they used Israel for the sting," Rosen added. "They could have used China, or others. But they chose Israel."
Describing an "obsession" with Israel within certain parts of the CIA and FBI, Rosen said if his own case had gone to trial, details reflecting the extreme views of his investigators would have come out. "There was no wrongdoing," he said, reflecting on the case against him and Weissman.
"But we go through this all the time. There is a faction in the counterintelligence bureaucracies that is fomenting these tales," he said. "They are methodically trying to create the impression that Mossad is under every bed."
Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, said the Nozette case is part of a "troubling" pattern of targeting Israel and Jews as potential spies against the United States.
"I am not naïve enough to believe that there aren't efforts to obtain information in all kinds of ways," Foxman said. But, he asked, "Why is it that we don't hear of any other country, except for Israel? I find that troubling."
The US Defense Department has repeatedly singled out Jewish employees for possible disloyalty, Foxman said. The situation has escalated, with increasing cases of Jews having difficulty obtaining security clearance. If you have relatives in Israel, speak Hebrew, or practice Orthodox Judaism, he said, "changes are, you won't get clearance. That's the mindset out there."
Weissman's attorney in the AIPAC case, Baruch Weiss, said he knew very little about Nozette, only what he read in media reports.
However, "this case certainly raises the legitimate question of whether this was a legitimate sting or whether it was an unfairly selective sting aimed at Jews to test dual loyalty," Weiss said.
It *was* China and the Chinese
Back in the Clinton era, right? People complained about iffy campaign donations from some Chinese temple to Gore and that one scientist (from Lawrence-Livermore?) had his career ruined.
Couldn't Griffin at least
Couldn't Griffin at least point out who ran security at the airpoirts used on 9/11? Or point out Silversteins political connections? Or at least mention the names Zakheim and Suter occasionally, if not as much as he does the names Bush/Cheney? The guy doesn't have to connect the dots and say what seems most likely, that Zionists/Israeli interests played a major(leading?)role in 9/11, but wouldn't it be nice if he at least mentioned some of the evidence in passing?
I understand the entire debate is basically controlled and that speaking certain truths gets you unfairly labeled as an anti-semite, but how long do we let the perps and their partisans control the debate?
I'm not saying we should criticize Griffin too hard, I own at least 5 of his books and his work has served me very well. But for better or worse(I would agree it has been mostly for the better), he is the single most influential name in the movement and he is quite possibly letting the real perps off the hook. I wanna get Cheney too, but I would be extremely dissapointed if thats where the accountability ended.
No offense to Barrett or Bollyn, but if Griffin was presenting a lot of the same evidence(of zionist/israeli involvement) they do it would have a much bigger impact based on Griffins status in the movement. Again, I don't need him to connect all the dots per se, but why seemingly ignore all evidence that points to Israel? It's not enough to say-"they'll call him anti-semitic" imho. We should be prodding(not harassing or bashing) people like Griffin to go further, not self censor. Blaming Bush is only going to get us so far, at some point we are going to have to start naming more names.
Chris,
I hate to say this, but I do agree.
besides, when I saw him at Wayne PA, he was taking the bills from the sales of his books, and then one by one, with a flare of the arm, in front of everyone, handing them right over to Sander Hicks, his collector and counter. John Gold was standing there on his left hand side with arms folded, looking body-guardesque. it did not feel right, and I don't even partake in the Hicks and Gold bashing, but they don't seem to be on a parr with Dr. Griffin. sorry.
I love DRG, but I don't get it.
the positives: as Gret says, he is the goose who has laid the golden eggs in so many ways, and he questions the existence of Muslim hijackers, etc, and occasionally mentions, aside from Cheney and Rumsfeld, and Bush admin, "the neocons"....