Zeitgeist Jumps Shark With Addendum

gretavo's picture

This isn't really meant as a review as much as a confirmation that promoting Zeitgeist will make people look like they are into some kooky Ronald Chevalier type new age thing...

the explicitly fake Ronald Chevalier: http://www.myspace.com/ronaldchevalier

the less clearly fake Zeitgeist: http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/support.htm

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casseia's picture

For the Myspace-averse

http://ronaldchevalier.com/

And the comparison is ROTFLMAO-funny and accurate, too.

gretavo's picture

also zeitgeist totally bit from Money As Debt

and thanks, thats the link I meant to find!

dicktater's picture

Thank you!

I loathe that dung heap. I prefer to call it Mitespace.

"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
~~ attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen

dicktater's picture

Are we social networking yet?

Security services want personal data from sites like Facebook

Ministers say terrorists and other criminals are using free websites as a way of concealing their communications

Richard Norton-Taylor
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday October 15 2008 11.00 BST

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/15/terrorism-security/print

The government is drawing up plans to give the police and security and intelligence agencies new powers to access personal data held by internet services, including social network sites such as Facebook and Bebo and gaming networks.

The move, heralded in this morning's speech on international terrorism by Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, is prompted by concern that criminals and terrorists are using websites as a way of concealing their communications, according to Whitehall security sources.

At present, security and intelligence agencies can demand to see telephone and email traffic from traditional communications services providers (CSPs), which store the personal data for business purposes such as billing.

The rapid expansion of new CSPs - such as gaming, social networking, auction and video sites - and technologies such as wireless internet and broadband present a serious problem for the police, MI5, customs and other government agencies, the security sources say.

Sites such as Bebo and Facebook provide their services free, relying mainly on advertising for income. They do not hold records of their customers, many of whom in any case use pseudonyms.

"Criminals could use a chat facility - they are not actually playing the game but we can't actually get hold of the data," said one official.

"Criminal terrorists are exploiting free social networking sites," said another Whitehall security official, who added that the problem was compounded by the increasing use of data rather than voice in communications.

"People have many accounts and sign up as Mickey Mouse and no one knows who they are," he said. "We have to do something. We need to collect data CSPs do not hold."

Whitehall officials say that with the help of GCHQ - the electronic eavesdropping centre with a huge information storage capacity - the government is looking at different options that will be put out for consultation. They declined today to spell out the options but said that whatever is decided will need new legislation.

Despite this reticence, it is clear that the government wants to be able to demand that the new generation of CSPs collect data from their customers so the security services can access them.

The response from the networks is likely to be hostile, not least because of the potential costs involved.

If the government, as expected, offers to pay for any new data access scheme, it is likely to cost taxpayers billions of pounds.

The plan will need international cooperation since many of the new CSPs are based abroad, notably in the US.

Government officials insist that what they call the interception modernisation programme, or IMP, is important since access to communications data is a crucial tool in combating crime such as paedophilia, kidnapping and drug trafficking.

They say the planned new legislation would apply only to communications data - such addresses and names - but not to the actual contents of the communications. Intercepting the contents would still need ministerial warrants. Access to communications data would be available, as now, to senior police, local council officers and other public bodies.

Clearly concerned about a public backlash against the plan, officials stress that the government is not building up a single central database containing personal information of everyone in the country.
guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2008

E Vero's picture

We should prepare for the time when the internet is no more.

I think that we need to set up some sort of network to predate this sort of spying or perhaps a complete shut-down altogether. I heard that a nationwide wi-fi is in the works - but sites like this would be blocked (any content deemed 'offensive'). As usual, hold out a carrot (free wifi) and people will go along with the removal of their liberties. People won't protest for fear of being called a "hate monger," "holocaust denier," "conspiracy theorist," etc. (People have got to develop thicker skins.)

E

-------
"It is difficult to get the news from poems yet men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there."

--William Carlos Williams (from the poem 'From')

dicktater's picture

Fax machines and FIDOnet

In Russia, the people relied upon fax machines and photocopying information for manual distribution. The Soviet crackdown resulted in creating tens of thousands of Thomas Paines.

FIDOnet is a ystem of connected computer bulletin boards which rely on modems and POTS (plain old telephone system). When I bought my first real computer in 1990, I also bought a 1200 baud modem. I was able to login to bulletin board systems available local or long distance, utilize messaging, and download files. I was able to first use the Internet in pre-Web 1991 in a computer lab at school. After moving to the boonies, I suffered severe withdrawal. I discovered a bulletin board with a toll-free number where I obtained an Internet email address and was able to GOPHER to a university freenet in another state. From there, Telnet, email, usenet, you name it was available. All I had to do was encode any binary files and email them to my toll-free access account, download mails and decode, decode, decode.

Start collecting those 56k fax/modems and grab the drivers for them while you can. Look into FIDOnet and get a couple of softwares for connecting with bulletin boards.

It's probably not a bad idea to learn how to use eNcryPtiOn software (Truecrypt is really good) and be able to PGPify your mail.

"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."
~~ attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen

bruce1337's picture

Wait, so you're basically saying

"In this, [...] Brutus, along with his loyal familiar, Balzaak, embark on an impossible journey… they must destroy the evil Lord Daysius, stop an army of super clones, and restore peace to the galaxy before it is too late."

=

"One of the cornerstones of the organization's findings is the fact that many of the dysfunctional behaviors of today's society stem directly from the dehumanizing environment inherent in the existing monetary system."

???

Seriously?
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

Mime 11's picture

...! ......?

.....  . ..  ..: 

Support The Venus Project:



The Venus Project, led by Jacque Fresco, is very important to the foundation of our movement, for his tireless work of 70 yrs has provided the tools and framework to make a new, humane society possible. He is not a leader. He is simply a thinker with a true humane intent. We at thezeitgeistmovement.com operate this site with personal funds and do not ask for donations. However, if you care about the concepts presented here, please help The Venus Project stay afloat by making a small donation. They are a registered Non-Profit Organization dedicated to improving humanity and civilization. Your Donation is Tax deductible.

casseia's picture

End torture

Tortured grammar, that is.

Therefore, it isn't the individual people or groups that are the problem. It is actually the conditions upon which those people have been accustomed and indoctrinated by. Of course, many argue against this view with the escapist notion that it is "human nature" that causes this competition and need for dominance. This is unsupported by the facts. In reality, we are nearly clean slates when we are born and it is our environment that shapes who we are and how we behave.

The "clean slate" business has been shown over and over again to be false. Human beings are born with complex, innate tendencies AND are subject to environmental influence.

casseia's picture

Alex Jones versus Peter Joseph

I've been listening to this interview on YouTube and AJ really rips into Joseph's ignorance about genetics but then goes entirely nutso ("I will declare ABORTION EVIL!!!!")

It's Nut on Nut.

Here's where it gets good:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2W2ZkROpifI (Part 4)

dicktater's picture

Zeitgeist AD: Critical Review by G. Edward Griffin

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/heyoka.16.zeitgeist.criticalreview.htm

Zeitgeist Addendum: A Critical Review

G. Edward Griffin
Freedom Force International
October 16, 2008

Hello Mr. Griffin. I’m sure you have heard of the popular movie on the internet, Zeitgeist. It had three separate parts about Christianity being fake, the Federal Reserve being a conspiracy and bad, and that the government was involved in 9/11. Well the sequel just came out, Zeitgeist Addendum, and it seems very dangerous. This movie screams controlled opposition/false solution propaganda more than anything I have ever seen.

The movie starts off with why the Federal Reserve is bad. It seems to latch onto valid concerns that the freedom movement/Ron Paul supporters have been worried about. But its solution is really, really bad and is already sending a lot of people in the wrong direction. It goes on to say that money is evil and has caused every problem in the world. If only we abolished all money and private property everything would be great. All resources should collectively belong to all humans of the world. Intelligent management of resources and technology could allow everyone to be free. The world would turn into some utopia. All crime would go away and greed and corruption would go away. We should be a one world community. It even specifically says that voting for liberty candidates like Ron Paul is the wrong thing to do. I guess we should give up all hope and let bad politicians do whatever they want to us.

It is full of doublespeak, wild assumptions, and crazy socialist propaganda. It also put in more about how religion is bad. I am convinced this thing was specifically made to stop the liberty movement from achieving anything. It puts in just enough truths that we believe in to trick people into following the wrong path.

I think statements about what is wrong with this film from liberty organizations like Freedom Force International would do a lot of good and would prevent some people from going in the wrong direction. Some people might think the best idea is to just ignore it and it will go away. But it appears to be incredibly popular online and gaining support. Even the most popular Ron Paul website posted the video. And the most popular Ron Paul message board has three threads with hundreds of posts talking about it. Here is the video link.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

Jonathan, 2008 Oct 6

REPLY FROM E.G.:

Jonathan, I don’t like to criticize anything that is helping to spread the truth about the Federal Reserve and 9/11 but I must agree with the substance of what you have said about this video. I watched it two nights ago and was deeply disturbed by its message. At first, I thought it would be best to just let it play itself out in expectation that most viewers would cross it off as whacky. However, the production value is high, the effects and sound score are compelling, and there is enough truth embedded in the beginning to capture the attention and possibly the trust of many within the freedom movement. So here are my comments on a few items of concern:

1. The information about the Federal Reserve is, for the most part, right on target. However, I practically fell out of my chair when the program repeated that old, silly argument about the Fed not creating enough money to cover the cost of interest on debt; and, therefore, the world must forever be in debt. I knew right there that the writer did not read The Creature from Jekyll Island or, if he did, he forgot my analysis of this common myth. For those who are interested in that topic, it is fund on pages 191-192 of The Creature.

http://www.realityzone.com/crfrjeiss.html

2. The next jolt came when the program praised Civil War Greenbacks, calling them debt-free. Actually, Greenbacks were contrary to the U.S. Constitution and, although they were not fiat money issued by the banks, they were fiat money issued by the government. That was better than paying interest on nothing to bankers, but they still wiped out the purchasing power of American money through massive inflation. They can not correctly be called debt-free, either, because they represented debt on the shoulders of the government, which means, of course, on the shoulders of the taxpayers. It never ceases to amaze me how people think that the solution to money created out of nothing by those big, bad bankers is to have money created out of nothing by those nice, trustworthy politicians. Yet, that is what this program supports.

3. There is a lengthy segment in which the author of I Was an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins, tells the story of how propagandists in the U.S. manipulated public opinion to support military action against several Latin American countries. Then Perkins says that these propagandists scared Americans by telling them that the leaders of these countries were Marxists who were aligned with the Soviets. This, of course, is a half truth that is just as dangerous as a total lie. It is true about the propagandists and their strategy to scare the public into supporting military intervention in those countries, but it is false to portray those dictators as great humanitarians who cared only for the well being of their people. That is total bunk. They WERE aligned with the Soviet Union and they WERE part of a Marxist/Leninist strategy to dominate Latin America; a strategy that continues to this day.

There was plenty not to like on both sides of that struggle, but objective historians would never depict the Rhodesians (the CFR crowd in the U.S.) as bad guys but depict the Soviet puppets as good guys. In his book, Perkins reveals this same slant. He exposes the foul tactics of international corporations, the IMF, and World Bank, but he never mentions a Leftist dictator, such as Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez without praising them. Perkins is a collectivist aligned with the Left, and that strongly influences his telling of this story. Yet the producers of the video make no mention of this bias and give him an inordinate amount of time to present his slanted view without challenge.

4. Perhaps the biggest insult to our intelligence is the main theme of the program. It is that profits are the root of all our problems today. That being the case, we must change mankind to reject profit and we must work together on some other basis. It is never quite clear what that basis is, but, whatever it is, it will be administered and directed by an elite group, at least in the beginning. I was stunned by the fact that this is pure Marxism. Marx theorized that people had to be re-educated (in labor camps, if necessary) to cleanse their minds of the profit motive. He and his disciples, such as Lenin and Stalin and Khruschev, said that, eventually, the character of man would be purged of greed, and then the state would wither away because it no longer would be needed. Sure! We saw that in the Soviet Union and China, right? Yet this Marxist nonsense is exactly what is offered in this video program. It is Communism without using the name.

The profit motive is neither good nor bad. It can be applied either way depending on social and political factors. The desire for profit is merely the desire to be compensated for our labor, our creativity, our knowledge, or even for our risk. Without profit, very little would be accomplished in the world - not even if everyone spent a few years in labor camps to be re-educated. It is a basic part of man’s nature and is the mainspring of human progress, as Henry Grady Weaver described it in his book by that same title ( http://www.realityzone.com/mainspring.html ). Throughout history, whenever man lived in a system that allows him to be rewarded for his work, there has been great productivity and abundance. By contrast, where social engineers gained control of the state and restricted people from receiving the fruits of their labor, productivity fell, and scarcity was the norm.

The profit motive functions differently in different political systems. In a free system where government does not intervene in the market place, the profit motive always will manifest itself as competition, each person or each company trying to deliver better quality products and services at lower prices. That was how it used to be in the early days of America, and that is what led to the greatest outpouring of productivity and abundance the world has ever seen. However, in a collectivist system where government controls every conceivable aspect of economic and commercial activity (the system that now exists in America), the profit motive always manifests itself as a quest for political influence and laws to favor one group over another. The net effect is to eliminate competition in the market place. Under collectivism, success is achieved, not by creating better products and services for less cost, but by controlling legislators and government agencies. It is a system of legalized plunder, as Frederic Bastiat called it in his famous treatise, The Law ( http://www.realityzone.com/lawaudio.html ). Unfortunately, it is the system that dominates most of the world today.

Zeitgeist Addendum ignores this reality. At one point the narrator even says that the greatest evil in the world today is "the free enterprise system." That’s an incredible statement, especially inasmuch as the free enterprise system has been dead for several decades. It lives in name only. The whole world now is in the grips of non-competitive monopolies and cartels that have forged partnerships with governments. All of the evils to which this program alludes are the result, not of the free enterprise system, but of the abandonment of free enterprise and the adoption of collectivism. This program creates a mythological boogeyman and then advocates more of the very thing that has brought us to the mess we are in today.

The enemy of mankind is not profit. It is a political system of big government. Yet, this program is supportive of some of the most notable big-government collectivist on the planet. Marxist/Leninists may be enemies of collectivists in Washington, DC, but they are collectivists in their own right. The Communist model is no better than the Nazi model.

There is much more that could be said about other program topics such as technology supposedly being our salvation, about the a future world in which no one has to work, and about common ownership of land, oceans, natural resources, etc. but, for the most part, these merely are sub issues to the ones already described, so I will spare my readers the pain of further discourse.

In summary, this program does NOT offer a cure. It offers a mega dose of the disease itself.

Ed Griffin, 2008 Oct 9

juandelacruz's picture

Ed Griffin's disparaging

Ed Griffin's disparaging comments on John Perkins and his book Confessions of an Economic Hitman are uncalled for. Perkins book was based on personal experience in third world countries. He was not an econ adviser in Cuba, Nicaragua (under Noriega)or North Korea so there was no compelling reason for him to write about communist or socialist states. Perkins also did not go on a limb to defend communist or socialist states (unless he did so outside the book).

Perkin's book has other failings, but being pro communist or socialist is not among them. I would rather critique Perkins for blaming economic hits on the vague capitalist/corporatist system and seemingly letting the individuals running and maintaining the status-quo off the hook. But that could have been due to an honest failure to discern the key players and groups in this imperial power game (he could be an apologist for one of those groups too by pointing the blame on a non entity).

gretavo's picture

perkins has been embraced by the fake left like Amy Goodman

who had him on Democracy Now as soon as his book came out if I recall. to me this means that your last thought is prob right, that he is pointing the blame at a non-entity or at least in the wrong direction or in some way framing the issue in a away beneficial to someone! :)

bruce1337's picture

Could anyone quote pages 191-192 out of Creature from J.I.?

I'm one of the people frequently reiterating that "old, silly argument", and would love to know why it's wrong.

Then this: "It never ceases to amaze me how people think that the solution to money created out of nothing by those big, bad bankers is to have money created out of nothing by those nice, trustworthy politicians."

As I see it, money will have to be generated from some source, and it can't be neither private nor public, unless we're talking seashells. And therefore, I'd prefer money generated by the public -- meaning politicians, unless there is direct democracy. These politicians, in case of mismanagement, would be voted out -- a genuine possibility would "those big, bad bankers" not exert near total control over public perception as well as both (or in other countries slightly more) parties.

Ed Griffin ain't the Messiah, either.
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

E Vero's picture

requested quote

Hi Bruce,
How's it going?

Here's pp 191-192 in my copy (which is in ch 10, the Mandrake Mechanism; my book (17th printing, 2005); I'm pretty sure he was referring to just the section "Who creates the money to pay the interest" but I copied both pages in their entirety:

". . . paid to those who provide all the labor and all the materials. It is true that this figure represents the time-value of that money over thirty years and easily could be justified on the basis that a lender deserves to be compensated for surrendering the use of his capital for half a lifetime. But that assumes the lender actually had something to surrender, that he had earned the capital, saved it, and then loaned it for construction of someone else's house. What are we to think, however, about a lender who did nothing to earn the money, had not saved it, and, in fact, simply created it out of thin air? What is the time-vale of nothing?

As we have already shown, every dollar that exists today, either in the form of currency, checkbook money, or even credit card money--in other words, our entire money supply--exists only because it was borrowed by someone; perhaps not you, but someone. That means all the American dollars in the entire world are earning daily and compounding interest for the banks which created them. A portion of every business venture, every investment, every profit, every transaction which involves money--and that even includes losses and the payment of taxes--a portion of all that is earmarked as payment to a bank. And what did the banks do to earn this perpetually flowing river of wealth? Did they lend out their own capital obtained through the investment of stockholders? Did they lend out the hard-earned savings of their depositors? No, neither of these was their major source of income. They simply waved the magic wand called fiat money.

The flow of such unearned wealth under the guise of interest can only be viewed as usury of the highest magnitude. Even if there were no other reasons to abolish the Fed, the fact that it is the supreme instrument of usury would be more than sufficient by itself.

WHO CREATES THE MONEY TO PAY THE INTEREST?

One of the most perplexing questions associated with this process is "Where does the money come from to pay the interest?" If you borrow $10,000 from a bank at 9%, you owe $10,900. But the bank only manufactures $10,000 for the loan. It would seem, therefore, that there is no way that you--and all others with similar loans--can possibly pay off your indebtedness. The amount of money put into circulation just isn't enough to cover the total debt, including interest. This has led some to the conclusion that it is necessary for you to borrow the $900 for the interest, and that, in turn, leads to still more interest. The assumption is that, the more we borrow, the more we have to borrow, and that debt based on fiat money is a never-ending spiral leading inexorably to more and more debt.

This is a partial truth. It is true that there is not enough money created to include the interest, but it is a fallacy that the only way to pay it back is to borrow still more. The assumption fails to take into account the exchange value of labor. Let us assume that you pay back your $10,000 loan at the rate of approximately $900 per month and that about $80 of that represents interest. You realize you are hard pressed to make your payments so you decide to take on a part-time job. The bank, on the other hand, is now making $80 profit each month on your loan. Since this amount is classified as "interest," it is not extinguished as is the larger portion which is a return of the loan itself. So this remains as spendable money in the account of the bank. The decision then is made to have the bank's floors waxed once a week. You respond to the ad in the paper and are hired at $80 per month to do the job. The result is that you earn the money to pay the interest on your loan, and--this is the point--the money you receive is the same money which you previously had paid. As long as you perform labor for the bank each month, the same dollars go into the bank as interest, then out the revolving door as your wages, and then back into the bank as loan repayment.

It is not necessary that you work directly for the bank. No matter where you earn the money, its origin was a bank and its ultimate destination is a bank. The loop through which it travels can be large or small, but the fact remains all interest is paid eventually by human effort. And the significance of that fact is even more startling than the assumption that not enough money is created to pay back the interest. It is that the total of this human effort ultimately is for the benefit of those who create fiat money. It is a form of modern serfdom in which the great mass of society works as indentured servants to a ruling class of financial nobility.

UNDERSTANDING THE ILLUSION

That's really all one needs to know about the operation of the banking cartel under the protection of the Federal Reserve. But is would be a shame to stop here without taking a look at the actual cogs, mirrors, and pulleys that make the magical mechanism work. It is a truly fascinating engine of mystery and deception. Let us therefore, turn out attention to the actual process by which the . . . "

------

Also, Bruce, I think he meant having politicians create the money is just as bad as having bankers create the money because CREATING MONEY OUT OF NOTHING IS BAD NO MATTER WHO DOES IT. If the money is tied to gold/silver/etc (something REAL) than that's preferable to fiat money, no matter who creates it. But that's just my interpretation. I've not read the entire Griffin book!

E

-------
"It is difficult to get the news from poems yet men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there."

--William Carlos Williams (from the poem 'From')

bruce1337's picture

Thanks for the citation!

He says there's no perpetual debt spiral because the bank could accept labor instead of ultimately non-existent interest -- whoop de doo, that changes things...NOT!

As I see it, the problem doesn't lie with fiat money per se, but rather its emission as debt and with interest by private parties. Colonial Scrip worked despite being fiat money, didn't it? Then again, it was handled responsibly, with true public servants at the helm.

A gold backed currency, while certainly inhibiting credit expansion, would leave those in possession of the gold now with the possession of the money then, making the masses once again debtors to, in all likeliness, a few monopolies. The relative abundance of silver could mitigate this problem, though...
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

gretavo's picture

the principle here

is that the only real things on which the value of money is based, whether it is fiat money or metal-backed money, are things with innate value such as homes, food, labor, etc that are in demand and for which the money serves as an instrument of exchange and value storage. the trick is to make sure that there is enough money in circulation to account for everything that people want to buy, but not so much that there is so much leftover money that it begins to lose value because too much money is chasing too few goods and services. the current system may or may not lead to too much money in circulation depending on how productive all that money makes us. the main problem is the method whereby that money is created and distributed. currently, the banks' job is supposed to be to make loans, i.e. create money, that will be put to good use by having lending standards. Instead of doing their job right, though, they chose to create money by issuing credit for unproductive ventures--essentially for gamblers bidding up the price of things. so a bunch of people ended up with vast fortunes that they accumulated without actually producing anything of value or providing any useful service. This has the effect ultimately of making everyone's money worth less than it should be--money that in theory was worth the goods and services *we* produced suddenly is worth a lot less. money that we had save up for retirement is also worth less. In fact we could live our entire life under strict fiscal discipline and still end up with next to nothing based on the abuse by some of the system.

having a metal-backed currency may seem to solve the problem of our money being devalued because it implies that our money will actually represent something real. but is gold or silver "real" wealth? can you eat it or build a house with it? you can't, of course. The metal then becomes its own form of fiat, i.e. it becomes the legally mandated medium of exchange with no clear advantage over a responsibly and transparently managed fiat currency. Arguing over the form the system takes is a convenient substitute for arguing over how the system, in whatever form, is managed. those who think that metal-backed currency won't be abused somehow probably haven't thought things through enough--the system will need to have its own set of safeguards that will not be put in place just the same way that they were not put in place under the current system.

gulu's picture

Comic

 

 

Banktron

 

bruce1337's picture

Haha, bloody awesome!

:)
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere