911Blogger did finally respond on the many complaints (review)

Frank Ho's picture

http://911blogger.com/news/2010-06-30/911blogger-rules-moderation-policy...

The time prior to the 911Blogger response (and my own) I read some threads about 911Blogger, Truthaction, accusations about censorship, etc, because I wasn’t really informed about individual names (Albanese, Gold) in previous discussions.

This 'not being informed' on the level of individuals was not just laziness. My search for news on 9/11 and working on Waarheid911.com is, beside other responsibilities, very time consuming and has IMHO more priority than focusing on the inside. I'll explain why. But I did agree on some basic critics uttered on the WTCDemolition forum. I also gave notice about the way critics in general were being handled and how it concerned me.

It takes a long time to build-up some credibility, but structural distrust is established in just a few moments.

My concerns were especially aimed at the risk of creating an image of a ‘truthmovement’ that is more involved in internal quarrels, than efficiently trying to deliver important information about the case of 9/11. It’s very easy for so called (motivated) ‘disinformation agents’ to use such an image to underline their skepticism – perfectly fitting in the public’s perception about silly or even dangerous messengers. Just read the papers to see how this works.
My concern is also prompted by the fact that focusing on internal habits, faults or mistakes, is easier and more obvious (because it’s closer by) than focusing on actual matters where things are already said so many times. Like many movements before us we are confronted with the difficulty of overseeing the main goals and instead tilting to house-holding matters within our own habitat.

My first question was: how serious are all the accusations to 911Blogger, and since the long waiting response from the 911Bloggersite: what did they do to deal with it?

I’m aware that my judgments are personal and that my knowledge can’t be complete. For so far I’m still convinced that 911Blogger showed a lack of feedback to their contributors, because let’s be fair: 911Blogger is a co-product from many people who try to select or write good articles. Complaints about refusals without being told why, or without telling what exactly the policy is, are in my point of view valid complaints.

General Rules

The General Rules as being carried out today are not answering these complaints. I also had the experience of not being informed on refusals and I’m certain that my choices were never promoting hatred, racism, violence, terrorism or criminal actions. They were never sexual or pornographic, or continuing the same arguments over and over, never insulting and never from multiple accounts.

Israel

But is an article with some factual information on Israel considered as racism?
I guess 911Blogger should be clearer. They seem to be very cautious, which I welcome because the subject requires the utmost caution due to many quite successful efforts to label truthers as anti-Semites and due to all emotions that are involved anyway.

Still facts or criticism should be allowed on every segment of what happened on September 11. 911Blogger has the obligation to define it’s policy on all kinds of sensitivities that have reasons to be mentioned. Labeling people or nations with unnecessary qualifications – like naming them Zionists all the time - with all idiom characteristics that hate can gather – should be dejected in my opinion and mentioned in the policy rules as a reason for refusal.

It’s just the information, facts that can speak for themselves. 911Blogger refused the one contribution about Israeli involvement that I delivered, a well argued and fact based article. They didn’t explain this either, although I asked for it.

Answering with a bunch of general rules

Knowing about the complaints from WTCDemolition.com, I consider this kind of answering as disrespectful. These general rules does not seem to answer the real problems as being exposed in many threads. I mean the lack of transparency due to the internal policy of 911Blogger (and perhaps some other linked parties). Not to forget to mention the disrespectful neglecting of those who did invest in the same goal of creating an informative website with high quality.

Nevertheless, I agree with 911Blogger’s statement that calling each other ‘liars’ or disinformation agent’ is not tolerable. This kind of labeling people makes it impossible to exchange real arguments. It’s exactly the same as calling a 9/11 skeptic a ‘conspiracy theorist’. Once being said, it’s impossible to maintain a substantial conversation about facts. We are doing the same as the mainstream media when giving each other such kind of labels. Once again: facts will do, most of the rest is vanity.

Another question is: HOW BAD is the 911Blogger behavior?

I think it’s important to aim at 911Blogger’s lack of transparency. 911Blogger should respond on that. They didn’t. Their response today doesn’t seem fair, considering the questions that were asked or the complaints being delivered. By not answering these responses the critics (and anger) will logically increase.

But the accusations that 911Blogger is a (motivated) disinformant doesn’t seem right in my opinion. Accusations in threads that 911Blogger is (structural) denying or downplaying the role of controlled demolition at the WTC doesn’t seem credible.
There are a lot of articles posted about the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, who support the evidence of CD openly. I have no clue that 911Blogger is boycotting our important professor David Ray Griffin. Facts of these kinds did not seem to speak for themselves in the threads that I was able to read. Talking about openness: it should be possible to criticize even David Ray Griffin. It will make the man the living entity he actually is, potentially able to make mistakes.

What about men like Albanese and Gold?

When swimming against a main stream, it’s always much more difficult to reach certain goals. Every minority in history will know this. Women in certain times had to prove their skills to be twice as good as men in the same position. What to think about blacks, native people, gay people, from the perspective as being a minority?

When we say that government is lying on such a scale, we have to be extremely truthfull and integer ourselves. We can’t permit missteps like lies or dirty tricks. But the fact that we’re dealing with people who did so (Nullum humani mihi alienum/nothing human is alien to me ;-), doesn’t prove the fact that they’re intentional disinformation agents. It’s not professional behavior. It’s risky and not responsible. Perhaps it’s egoistic and based on the wish to be an outstanding leader or a hero, or another product of distrust (Just summing up some options, not aiming at Albanese or Gold in particular).

When ‘the movement’ will be more successful we will be challenged by our egos. Let’s not step in the trap of seeing an agent behind every tree!

It’s the information, stupid! Information will do. Information will protect whistle blowers. But internal quarrels will endanger the same brave men and women. We have a responsibility to carry.

What about real agents?

Real motivated and educated disinformation agents will certainly be active in the field of information gathering and information distributing. I don’t think they are with many, but when active on news forums they will have lots of ignorant or/and pubertal followers in their slipstream. Misinforming is much easier than informing, because misinformation can be anything. True information is about facts and asks for some knowledge and integer preparation!

Misinforming is a part of the game when having this war on information. In previous replies I said: let agents do their work because we can’t stop them, we really can’t. When ten agents won’t work, they will launch more. This intention is already proved. It’s just a flaw in our strategy when we are trying all the time to respond on their silly efforts. This responding will result in endless fights and personal accusations. Many times it will result in accusations to each other, just because we distrust each other, have different opinions or itching egos.

The only thing we CAN do is much more powerful. That is giving the right information, truth full because fact based. We need to have several podia with valid information flows to attract the public we really need. That’s the public who wants to know the truth about 9/11.

Debunking misinformation

On these podia we can also debunk misinformation on a professional and responsible way. Not like a bunch of quarreling school kids complaining all the time. That kind of behavior is the real disinformation; the highest reward for every ‘disinformation agent’. It will discourage most readers. Real warriors are not simply brave fighters; they use strategy and a full focus on their main goals.

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juandelacruz's picture

you are free to disagree

You are free to disagree, but i still think that repeated and deliberate promotion of lihop by people who know the falsity of lihop is valid ground for being labeled disinfo. If you buy it that they are honest, you might as well believe NIST is honest. Why stop there, Silverman and Chertof were probably saying what they knew was the the truth as well.

Frank Ho's picture

I don't want to drown in politics

On every forum I see opinions I don't like and others who try to refute them. That's what I see on 911Blogger too. That doesn't wash away the critics that I was talking about.

I've seen a lot of action, not only about 9/11. Some people are just so politically minded that they translate everything in tricks and personal conflict. I also sense this politically driven mindset in the way how 911Blogger is steering the website. Ironically it seems that some of the most fanatic 911Blogger critics are having that same kind of mindset ;-)

Another way of looking to things is a more depersonalized point of view. That's the more scientific way of looking at events. By the lack of all those attached feelings it is much easier to distinguish all the components that together compose what we're looking at.

http://waarheid911.com [Dutch]
http://twitter.com/W911 [English]

Jpass's picture

its' hard

I've been dealing with many of the same people since 2003 and I know the methods. I know there is preferential treatment for some users while others get a green light.

Some of the most ridiculous information get's no debate at all because the users willing to study and question garbage like The Graham Report are literally banned from sharing information.

You might think this is some sort of personal mental internalization or whatever...but I believe it's based on years of observation of various people who jump from site to site.

It's ok for people like Chris Sarns to label someone a "Jew Hater" because they talk about Israeli Involvement in the 911 Attacks or because they farted and it sounded like "Holocaust". While on the other hand, someone like Sander Hicks is allowed to post some of the most despicable anti-Muslim garbage (The Graham Report) which goes un-questioned...because those willing to do so are banned! All the while someone like Hick's is speaking at 9/11 Truth events.

I will continue pointing it out. I always consider I may be wrong but I don't think so. I'm one of few who have the opportunity to spend enough time to see the forest for the trees. Most people just barely spend enough time to notice patterns and behavior. This is the contribution I will make.

casseia's picture

You're doing a great job.

Your posts are articulate, calm and you keep emphasizing the MOST important point -- that real racism is actually killing people right now (Islamofascism is real and Arab/Muslim hijackers "did" 9/11) whereas the specter of Jew hatred is mostly used as camouflage for the actions of Israel.

Jpass's picture

Thanks.

"Your posts are articulate, calm..."

Thanks for sharing your observation. I've been adjusting my approach by studying my past material and practicing patience. Glad you noticed.

juandelacruz's picture

Excuse my spelling, that

Excuse my spelling, that should have been Silverstein, not Silverman.

Adam Syed's picture

Jpass

Excellent response to that Sarns idiot over there.

Frank Ho's picture

Sarns idiot? Let's see if I

Sarns idiot? Let's see if I can find out what you mean ;-)

Frank Ho's picture

Just read your vital comment on Sarns

I just read your vital comment on Sarns. I agree. Sarns arguments seems dishonest. Problem is that 9/11 has the mythical proportion to give every issue related to it the same kind of dimensions. That makes it so hard to have a normal conversation about it with different mindsets.

With other issues from the past, I experienced exact the same kind of bogus arguments. Just not correct, not carefully thought-out. Often from guys who were in the same situation as I, with the same need for a proper solution. I guess everyone can recognize this.

But then it was just a person that wasn't able to deal with the facts. In the case of 9/11 we are tending to make that kind of annoying behavior much bigger than it actually is. In most cases there is nothing behind the curtain, no deeper meaning than just somebody who isn't that sharp or that much obligated to the truth.

I again plead for the depersonalized approach ;-)

juandelacruz's picture

Hi Frank, I actually agree

Hi Frank, I actually agree on an objective approach. Though I think that people ought to be more angry about the injustice, that people ought to be more involved in seeking the truth for the benefit of all and themselves. But when arguing a point, objectivity should guide our every word.

However, part of objectivity is to point out disinfo, if at some point a person is determined to be disinfo. Calling somebody as such will to a certain extent take a qualitative evaluation. We can't say for example that it takes X years of promoting Arab/Muslim primacy in 9-11 and, X times being corrected that Arab/Muslim terrorists had no way of planting explosives on three WTC buildings to designate that a person is disinfo. I do think that people on this site do not use this label lightly, and most people labeled as such deserved it by a good margin.

This little dip into qualitative is not an appeal to feelings. Take for example how I was first convinced that 9-11 was a false flag. I watched videos of WTC going down. Qualitatively, I knew that this could not have been due to fire, that it was most likely caused by demolitions. But at the time I was not armed with the video by David Chandler showing the exact acceleration of the building, which was free fall equivalent. I just trusted my intuition and experience of falling bodies and layman knowledge of steel structures then to determine that the official story was false. When Chandler's videos came out, it was only then that I had a truly quantitative determination that the WTC were demolished.

When it comes to disinfo, to a certain extent, the experience of truthers also comes into play in determining if a source of info is honestly mistaken or disinformation. The controlling mods at 911blogger and characters such as Jon Gold, as far as I can tell are the later.

Frank Ho's picture

About being angry, yes we can.... ;-)

Hi Juan,

About being angry, I'm not that softy who says that people shouldn't be angry. Of course they have reason to be mad. But 9/11 itself, the whistleblowers, the 9/11 families who lost loved ones, the injustice, they are all reason to make this madness not our personal punching bag. All those who risk their public integrity or even their lives deserve better than that. Therefore we need - at least try - to canalize this anger in cool calculation, define goals like changing public opinion in order to mount pressure for a real investigation.

Disinformation is just something you can't terminate. Provide good information and doing this in a collective structure is something we CAN do.

But replying on your words about disinfo and correcting this, I already agreed. We have to correct disinformation, but not on the personal way with calling people names. That's not cool. On the short term it will solve some personal feelings of anger but interested visitors will hook off.

The art of debunking disinformation has something to do with speaking truth yourself: using dignity and knowledge and not making things personal. People will recognize this as positive signs. Why? Because this behavior is unattached. There is not much reason to suspect. Other people from outside our glass bell will feel the need to connect with this. That's what we need the most. Our problem is not to be right, but to get this acknowledged.

What about all kind of figures within the 'truthmovement'?

The truthmovement in fact is a conglomerate of all kinds of flavors that come together on occasion. Like I told before, I dealt with it before under different circumstances and you can't win the struggle for a unanimous strategy or opinion or even knowledge. Belief me, you can't! I tried too!

In the past I was extremely frustrated about guys who blew up everything I tried to move things forward. I knew I was able to do that. My struggle against these guys and my irritation about their stupidity was completely destroying my own chances, based on my own qualities. Looking back, I am the guy who was right then. I knew it all the time, but I was unable to generate the support I needed, due to those stupid bastards who divided everybody.

But I still know for sure that those guys were no agents, they had the same perspectives as I had. They needed the same progress. But you simply can't change people from everywhere in the direction you wish. Some people are just different, have different views, etc. Some are just stupid. The worse people to deal with are those who consider themselves extremely professional, but in fact are just filling their unsatisfied egos. Do you want to kill them? No, there are to many anyway. You just have your own capabilities to serve. Yes, you can ;-) LOL

In my example I dealt with persons within the same circle. But with 9/11 we have the luxury to work on a different platform than those who are being criticized. So, why not debunking some of what they're saying the way I just proposed? And only doing this when it is absolutely necessary in actual events.

Frank Ho's picture

GlobalResearch:Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement

Sorry for having no time to put this brand new article on the forum:
GlobalResearch: Left-Leaning Despisers of the 9/11 Truth Movement, by David Ray Griffin
http://bit.ly/958P8F

I consider this as an important one!

Frank Ho
http://twitter.com/W911

Annoymouse's picture

ah!

for a moment there i thought dr griffin was *calling* global research left leaning despisers!

Annoymouse's picture

In a thread at 911blogger

In a thread at 911blogger about the "rules and moderation policy" Chris Sarns again shows his real agenda of demonizing arabs and framing them for 9/11(with the help of MI5 and CIA!) while letting Israeli involvement off the hook-"The comment that started this round of whining about purging was about strategy more than Jew bashing. There is plenty of evidence of Mossad involvement but there is also plenty of evidence of CIA and MI5 involvement. To obsess with one to the exclusion of the others is biased and bad strategy. If you want to grind your anit-Zionist ax go right ahead but don't mix it with 9/11Truth because it hurts the movement. We are trying to get people to open up and bringing in the Israeli connection turns most people off."-Chris Sarns

What a transparent tool. Jpass handled him well though. He took his ball and ran home.....