What Direction is 911Blogger Taking?

Real Truther's picture

Well let's see,

http://www.911blogger.com/node/9342

The post above has a picture of Annie Machon, partner (some say former) of disinfo shill David Shayler. Plugged in this post are the films 9/11 Press for Truth, the Patsystan did it limited hangout movie, and Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime, along the same lines but even worse, failing to mention buidling 7 even once.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/9348

In this next post Jon Stewart is promoted as someone who "if woken up to the truth about 9/11" would be a great asset. The link provided is to a story on Alex Jones' site, no less. In comments, a few people including site owner dz talk up Jon Stewart as if he was a wonderful guy who just needs to wrap his head around 9/11. The video clip that is supposed to make us realize how brilliant Stewart is is basically a series of jokes making light of the tragedy in Iraq. I don't have time now to elaborate but suffice it to say that 911B may well be showing its true colors.

I've written a second and final email to dz, the site owner, to ask him why I've been blocked from accessing the site and assuming I get no reply, or one that confirms that I have been banned, by tonight, I will be issuing a statement on the subject that I hope people will take the time to consider seriously.

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bruce1337's picture

What?

So...it appears you've been banned? Jeez! Did you get a reply to your first email, and if so, what was its tone?
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

Annoymouse's picture

I LOVE REAL TRUTHER

i've been warned several times by dz. the true colors have bled through their thick mask.

gretavo's picture

real truther ♥'s you too!!!

and thanks you for the kind words... :)

Real Truther's picture

nope no reply! two emails so far from me, both polite.

____

â™ 

Real Truther

"Truth will have no gods before it.- The belief in truth begins with the doubt of all truths in which one has previously believed."

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

Keenan's picture

Wow! I wonder if I'm next...

...cuz I also am guilty of going Where Thou Shalt Not Go in some of my 911 Blogger posts. Someone already expressed on Blogger that I should be banned because of displaying my ZioNazi "Axis of Evil" flag in one of my posts.

casseia's picture

Well, honestly

I find your flag pretty off-putting. The thing is, the Star of David is a religious symbol as well as the symbol of Israel. So, although I'm pretty sure you have these images juxtaposed qua symbols of nations and ideologies, it looks like you're dissing Judaism. (And actually, it doesn't go unnoticed that this is just another conflation of Judaism with the Zionist project -- they put the symbol of their religion on the flag.) It's not fair, but that's the way it is and as a result, images like your flag are guaranteed to push buttons, even those of people like myself, who agree with you for the most part.

gretavo's picture

actually

the star of david isn't really a symbol of Judaism at all, Cass. its history seems murky and while it was certainly used by some Jews for some purposes it wasn't until the zionists came around that it got put on a flag and assumed to represent Judaism per se... a menorah might be a more appropriate symbol for Judaism...

like I said I also was irked by it at first but I think that it falls under that troublesome gray area where one is compelled to separate the gut reaction from a more nuanced consideration that can lead to fruitful discussion.

i'd be interested in hearing other peoples' take on it--if good arguments can be made for it i wouldn't think it would be a horrible thing to ask Keenan to choose a different avatar and perhaps link to the image in a gallery of sorts where it wouldn't be hidden, just not on every single page where s/he posts comments--i just think we should be careful to question our own assumptions at least once when things like this come up... thoughts?

gretavo's picture

graven images

oh, i forgot that Judaism prohibits graven images like golden calves and, well, stars of david. so just another example of how Zionism is NOT in fact Judaism, precisely because of its graven imagery!

casseia's picture

You make a good point about questioning assumptions

which I tend to be ready and willing to do most of the time. And I wasn't implying that Keenan should not use it as his avatar, actually.

As far as the Star of David being a symbol of Judaism, I think it IS, regardless of Zionist appropriation. That is, when I think back to eighth grade and my friends with their little gold stars, I don't think they were wearing them to emblemize their Zionist sympathies. For whatever reason, by the second part of the 20th century in the US, the Star of David was a symbol of Jewishness.

As for the "graven images" prohibition, I always assumed that worked like the Muslim prohibition on representative images, which led to all the beautiful abstract patterns in rugs. That is, golden calves = not okay, geometric figures = okay.

gretavo's picture

i think you hit on something there...

isn't part of the problem that Israel, i.e. Zionism, has come to meld itself with Judaism in the minds of many people including Jews themselves? this is pretty interesting, as I recall from my last trip to wikipedia on the subject the symbol was not invented by Zionists, it existed in the Jewish tradition, but not really as a unifying symbol. I could be wrong...

this also highlights something i've been thinking about Zionism, that it represents an attempt to create a secular religion alongside the religious one (I'm not making this up, I know I read it somewhere) Hence the elevation of the crimes against Jewish people during WW2 from tragedy to mythology, and the fixing of sacred numbers and symbols (the gas chamber being the modern secular Jewish equivalent of the cross for christians)

As such Zionism (and its American offspring neoconservatism) represents the danger of religion that is not easily explained away as superstition, since it convinces the modern, rational, and skeptical mind that it is based on "real" things and not on "spiritual beliefs"...

bruce1337's picture

I think you read it...

here -- very succinct observations, methinks. On another note: WTF -- is this data accurate?
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

Keenan's picture

Thanks for the feedback!

When I designed the flag, the main problem was how to symbolize the flag of Israel/Zionism with the combination of the US and British flags. The blue star of David was the only symbol that seemed to make sense, even though I realized that it would be hard to avoid the conflation with Judaism in most people's minds.

I'm glad that it resulted in a fruitful discussion on this blog (and there aren't many other blogs which could have handled this topic in a mature and intelligent way as this one), with so many excellent observations and reflections on how we are programmed to react emotionally by symbols (as well as how people are intentionally manipulated as such by the use/misuse of symbols). It is pretty interesting to stand back and look at just how powerful flags and symbols can be in causing emotional reactions in people. That's why I really don't like flags in general - they seem to divide people and encourage irrational jingoistic ferver among groups.

So I guess I meant to provoke people, in a way, with this artwork. The reason I created this "Axis of Evil" flag was to cut right through the heart of the whole Orwellian brainwashing, a kind of in-your-face reality check, taking symbols and language that have been used to deceive the masses by the fascist pathocracies (rule by pathological people - i.e. manipulative psychopaths, see "Political Ponerology") and turning them back on the pathocrats in a combination that speaks the truth, rather than the lie.

That brings up the subject of the origin of symbols and how the ancient meanings of certain symbols can be totally transmuted, in a negative or positive directon. Ironically, the ancient origins of both the Swastika and the Star of David are, in fact, related (though not for the meanings most people today are familiar with), and the original meanings, which have been totally eclipsed by the current emotionally charged ones, pre-date the contemporary uses/understandings of each symbol by thousands of years.

The history of the Swastika spans more than 3000 years. The origin of the Swastika according to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

" The swastika (from Sanskrit svástika स� वास� तिक ) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either left-facing or right-facing forms. The term is derived from Sanskrit svasti, meaning well-being. The Thai greeting sawasdee is from the same root, carrying the same implication.

It is a widely-used sacred symbol in Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism). Hindus often decorate the swastika with a dot in each quadrant. In India, it is common enough to be a part of several Devanagari fonts. It is also a symbol in the modern unicode. It is often imprinted on religious texts, marriage invitations, decorations etc. It is used to mark religious flags in Jainism and to mark Buddhist temples in Asia.

Archaeological evidence of swastika shaped ornaments goes back to the Neolithic. In 1920 the swastika was adopted as a Nazi symbol, and has since then become a controversial motif as a consequence. In the Western world, it is this usage as a symbol of Nazism that is most familiar, and this political association has partly eclipsed its historical status in the West.

[...]

The swastika has an extensive history. The motif seems to have first been used in Neolithic Eurasia.

[...]

The symbol has an ancient history in Europe, appearing on artifacts from pre-Christian European cultures. It was also adopted independently by several Native American cultures.
Greek helmet with swastika marks on the top part (details), 350-325 BCE from Taranto, found at Herculanum. Cabinet des Médailles, Paris.
Greek helmet with swastika marks on the top part (details), 350-325 BCE from Taranto, found at Herculanum. Cabinet des Médailles, Paris.

In the Western world, the symbol experienced a resurgence following the archaeological work in the late nineteenth century of Heinrich Schliemann, who discovered the symbol in the site of ancient Troy and associated it with the ancient migrations of Proto-Indo-Europeans. He connected it with similar shapes found on ancient pots in Germany, and theorized that the swastika was a "significant religious symbol of our remote ancestors," linking Germanic, Greek and Indo-Iranian cultures.[1][2] By the early 20th century it was widely used worldwide and was regarded as a symbol of good luck and success.

The work of Schliemann soon became intertwined with the völkisch movements, for which the swastika was a symbol of "Aryan" identity, a concept that came to be equated by theorists like Alfred Rosenberg with a Nordic master race originating in northern Europe. Since its adoption by the Nazi Party of Adolf Hitler, the swastika has been associated with fascism, racism (white supremacy), World War II, and the Holocaust in much of the West. The swastika remains a core symbol of Neo-Nazi groups, and is also regularly used by activist groups to signify the supposed Nazi-like behavior of organizations and individuals they oppose."

Interestingly, the six-pointed star made of two interlacing equilateral triangles, which most people today see as the Star of David, also has more ancient origins from the same Aryan and Hindu traditions as the Swastika. This six pointed star is a very common image in Hinduism as the central image within the lotus of the heart chakra: ANAHATA: LOTUS OF THE HEART

http://www.gaiamind.com/starbird.html

The Archetypal Mandala of the Star of David

by Margaret Starbird

" The mandala of the hexagram, also known as the "Star of David" is much older than Judaism, older even than history! As an archetypal symbol for the sacred union of the opposite energies, it is the "yin-yang" of western civilization. Formed by the intertwining of the "fire" and "water" triangles (the male "blade" and the female "chalice") this symbiol represents the masculine and feminine principles in perfect union, the "sacred marriage" or "hieros gamous" of the ancient world. In India the symbol represents the "cosmic dance" of Shiva and Shakti, and the Jewish Kaballah suggests that the Ark of the Covenant contains, in addition to the tables of the Ten Commandments, "a regular hexagram representing a man and woman in intimate embrace,"

Since "Sacred Union" is the source of all life on this planet, the six-pointed star uniting the archetypal male and female triangles has long been acknowledged as the model for balance and wholeness. Medieval Alchemists called the Star the "Philosopher's stone," adding a tiny dot on the upper right hand point to represent the presence of God and guidance of the Divine Spirit. In 1986 during a period of intense revelation and enlightenment, I was given the symbol of the six-pointed star with a dove brooding over it, wings outstretched, as a powerful sign for the New Age dawning. The star represented the entire living cosmos--"male and female," "heaven and earth," "spirit and matter," "light and dark" and all living things--under the Dove of Peace, "with healing in her wings." For years, I couldn't really talk about this image, but finally wrote about the meaning of the Star in the final chapter of my book, THE WOMAN WITH THE ALABASTER JAR, (Bear and Co, 1993). The Star of David appears on every page of that book as its guiding mandala, and the contents have been described by some readers as the "missing link" between Christianity and Juadism. That missing link is the "sacred marriage."
"
Ananda marga use of the symbol
http://www.gaiamind.com/starmarga.html

" Six-pointed star in the ideological symbol of Ananda Marga
The ideology of Ananda Marga, an organization founded by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti (1921-1990), is based on the tradition of Tantra where the triangles and other symbols play an important role, and it is not at all surprising that the six-pointed star can also be found in the ideological symbol of AM.

The six pointed star is composed of two equilateral triangles. The triangle pointing up represents action of the outward flow of energy through selfless service to humanity. The triangle pointing downward represents knowledge or the inward search of our sádhaná. (from: A.M. Spiritual and Social Practices, ed. Tarak)

So the star also represents an old Tantric aphorism by Shiva, who was the first to give form to Tantra some 7500 years ago:

So Shiva has said, people should follow dharma � tmamoks'artham' jagathitáya ca - "For self-realization and for the welfare of the universe". (from Namah Shiváya Shántáya by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti)

Finding the dynamic balance between the inner and the outer seems to be one of the great tasks of our lives. And when the balance is found, the star is also perfect."

So, it looks like both of these ancient symbols have been co-opted and transmuted into what people are familiar with today, though not necessarily for the better.

Regarding the origin of the Swastika, there is an insidious line of thought currenty running amok through the right wing/Christian/Libertarian/anti-environmental types here in Amerika that attempts to link the origin of the modern environmental/Gaia/deep ecology movement to Nazism and fascism by deceptively making reference to the ancient links of the Swastika to the Indo/Aryans/Hindus, combined with the fact that many of the modern environmentalists/Gais-ists get inspiration from Hindu spirituality, and the fact that there was an element of environmentalism within the German Nazi movement ("Green Fascism"). These right wing propagandists, by the use of clever logical fallacies, are attempting to prove that today's modern environmentalists are secretely motivated by Nazism and are just using environmentalism as a tool to justify their secret plan to kill off 90% of the human race (when in reality it is the right wing who is planning such a calamity). To me, this looks like a perfect PsyOp program to scare-monger the more gullible part of the population who are already looking for excuses to not have to be responsible for their behavior, into rejecting environmental protection so that greedy corporations and sociopathic individuals can continue plundering and destroying the environment for profit unimpeeded by the petty little concerns of normal people who just happen to feel they have a right to a healthy, functioning eco-system for themselves and future generations.

The irony of the universe never ceases to amaze me.

Anyway, I am open so suggestions in how I might improve the flag by avoiding the button pushing over the Jewish conflation issue. Does anybody have any ideas on how to include a recognizeable symbol of the Israeli flag without using the Star of David?

gretavo's picture

wow, that was informative!

as for suggestion on how to downplay the emotional trigger, you could change the color of the hexagram... I think it's very interesting how the symbol and so many others, like the yin yang, all impute a dualism to the universe and to life. I think that this dualism is "real" and that it's not a coincidence that it manifests itself in so many ways in the physical AND cultural spheres. Light nd dark, positive and negative, good and evil, male and female, and so on...

kioski's picture

a little provocation is okay

I think it's perfect.

Lazlo Toth's picture

Put a Bulldozer in the Middle of the Star

Hey Keenan,

Nice post. I have long thought that the Israeli flag should have the profile of a bulldozer in the middle of the star. The bulldozer is one of the prime symbols and tools of Israeli terrorism and should definitely represent the country as a whole on its flag. I am actually working on a bulldozer profile in Adobe Illustrator for just such a design. I'll send it to you.

The symbol of the swastika (a Sanskrit word meaning "auspicious marking," su + astika) as a solar cycle symbol goes back to Sumeria in 3rd millenium BCE Mesopotamia. I once saw it on some pottery from that culture.

BTW, I have lots of friends in Santa Cruz as I grew up in the Bay Area.

gretavo's picture

RIP Rachel Corrie

fucking bulldozer motherfuckers...

Lemonhoko's picture

Speaking of Symbols

I hope my all-seeing doggy eye doesnt upset too many people..lol. It didnt occur to me that it resembles the all seeing illuminati eye, until I saw this topic.
If it bothers you let me know and I will post another symbol for my avatar.

*************************

The 11th Day of Every Month

casseia's picture

Do you have a flag?


larry horse's picture

haha

i have a friend who says i remind her of eddie izzard. i'm afraid those eyeliner days are behind me. the women just thought i was weird (which i am) or gay (which i'm not)...not that there's anything wrong with that (overused seinfeld reference, i know).

casseia's picture

An end to the Big Tent approach to 9/11 Truth?

I wonder how many times I've heard that 9/11 is not a left-right issue, and how many times (until recently) I nodded agreement, even though I had a niggling feeling that what this really meant was that I should shut up with my leftie critiques of people like Alex Jones. I'm afraid this complacency is going to come back and bite me in the ass. With a change in regime looming on the horizon, the idea that forces will be working busily to firmly cast 9/11 Truth as a child of the loony Right, Waco whackos, Libertarian/Populist gun-in-pants-crammers seems hard to deny.

casseia's picture

On a related note...

I was peeved to run across yet another anti-gay slur while reading 911blogger this afternoon. I'm sure that yes, the person was just being lazy with his choice of words and reverting to eighth-gradese. This time I didn't say anything. I just didn't feel like playing PC Nazi, although typically when I do, some nice gay Truther will come by and thank me, which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Things like this are obstacles to making alliances with the left. The local group was involved in a huge debacle early this year that very pointlessly pissed off the leftie usual suspects in the community. If those of us in the group who identify as leftist truthers had not been so used to being told to shut up about issues not directly related to 9/11 because they would "dilute the agenda" we might have seen it coming and prevented it. (Oddly, the "don't dilute the agenda" contingent is quite happy to bring in chemtrails, the NWO, Illuminati, and the government's attempts to "destroy our families" with domestic violence laws and the like.)

gretavo's picture

good observation

it's like let's promote unity so long as it is unity over the "loony right" view of 9/11. I really liked when you called Ron Paul a "uterus grabber". Even if it's not entirely accurate it's no more wrong than calling Kucinich a "gun grabber" IMO and a good example of why partisan politics and politicians are best left out of discussions on 9/11.

on a related note, I made a little chart as a thought experiment today where I tried to identify the left and right in their pro and anti truth incarnations. For the anti truth it's easy of course--say... Bill O'Reilly and McCain for the right, and Chomsky and Hillary for the left. For pro truth on the right I had Alex Jones and Ron Paul, and for the left... I could think of a politician, Kucinich or McKinney for example, but not an equivalent of AJ. No media personality with a leftist bent that promotes 9/11 truth. Am I missing someone?

casseia's picture

For a long time

the idea of arguing about abortion at 911blogger was my worst nightmare, but I think Paul's stance on "bodily sovereignty" is hypocritical bullshit, as are the positions of all those populist liberty champions who get wishy-washy (or downright self-contradictory) when it comes to this issue. Thinking about arguing with these guys really crystallized my pro-choice ideas, which had softened up a bit after my own experience of pregnancy and childbirth. I like the personal liberty-based argument now, rather than crap about when the fetus becomes a human being (although as I said at 911B, my *personal* ideas about this are different than they were before I had a kid.)

gretavo's picture

it's not an easy subject

and one best left to the individual who must live with it, i.e. the woman. I'm on of many I presume who feel abortion is ok in inverse proportion to the age of the fetus. morning after pill sounds good to me for that reason, but I also recognize the right of a woman to decide that she doesn't want a developing fetus inside of her for whatever reason. but an abortion at 8 and a half months? that's tough for me to condone, but at the same time I acknowledge I'm not the best suited to make rules or support rules being made with regard to that. and the "pro-life" crowd gets really hypocritical when they oppose abortion AND contraception. THAT really makes me want to puke--it's almost like they're fine with fetuses needlessly being created so that they can have something to fight over and assume the holier than thou position...

larry horse's picture

here's a horse's take

i come from a very large protestant family (thanks to that no contraception shit, i'm alive). btw, i'm a christian by middle name only. do whatever you feel is right. your heart is what matters. you have to sleep, right? i won't cast the first stone unless you're wearing a jon gold t-shirt.

Annoymouse's picture

media personality with a leftist bent...

Rosie O'Donnell

Real Truther's picture

ah, thanks!

I also noticed another mentioned in this post on 911B: http://www.911blogger.com/node/9353

and that is Janeane Garofalo.

Now... what does it mean that our 9/11 truth friendly lefty personalities are women of Irish and Irish/Italian descent? Nothing maybe, but what can we say the following 9/11 truth UNfriendly lefties (gatekeepers) might have in common?

Amy Goodman
Noam Chomsky
Jon Stewart
Joshua Holland
Eric Alterman

Could it be, just maybe, that they are all Jewish, and that somehow being Jewish might predispose someone to embrace the OCT even if they are avowedly anti-Bush? Does it make sense that they would be defending Bush? Or could it be that they are all Zionists? Or at least feel cowed by Zionists and don't want to invite the wrath coming to any Jewish American who draws attention to the 9/11 cover-up? Is it wrong to even raise this question? Would it be wrong if all the people in question were of Pakistani descent or would it be odd then?

____

â™ 

Real Truther

"Truth will have no gods before it.- The belief in truth begins with the doubt of all truths in which one has previously believed."

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

Annoymouse's picture

what about

Howard Zinn. I know Zinn endorsed David Ray Griffin's research. There have to be some Jewish folk out there - celebs/journalists or not - who are on the page. Where's Lazlo Toth been?

gretavo's picture

yes! Howard is awesome...

And I'm assuming he's Jewish...? Mind you I'm not suggesting a conspiracy here, just pointing out a fact that may indicate that 9/11 truth could well implicate Israel and that this may weigh on Jewish people more than others...

casseia's picture

It's also an issue that is used to manipulate

the voting public. I think a lot of people really don't care whether other people have abortions, but like gay marriage, it's a good way to whip people up into a frenzy either pro or con.

The "inverse proportion rule" would certainly apply to my personal decisions on this -- and I doubt that I could have an abortion after 16 weeks, because that is the point at which Lily began to seem like a person to me rather than an alien death spore (I had really bad morning sickness in the first trimester.) However, *if* you believe in the right to use lethal force in self-defense, I don't see how you can justify disallowing any abortion. (And the fact is, people willing to have an abortion at 8 and a half months must be an infinitesimal percentage of women -- probably in the same ballpark as the number of women willing to drown their already-born children in a bathtub.)

I'm assuming that some of these righty-types who feel fine about uterus-grabbin' believe it would be okay to use lethal force to remove someone from their private property if that was the only way. I just have a major problem with the hypocrisy.

Lucky Larry's picture

when I need to remove people from my property...

I usually just give the order to pull it. Sometimes after the people are removed, though, my property doesn't react too well--so you may be better off using lethal force...

gretavo's picture

yikes

alien death spore?! seriously though, thanks for sharing--I think you're right about its usefulness as a political wedge of course, and insights like yours are the antidote to that, if only we could get people to look at things in a nuanced way instead of in the blue/red (bluered--blurred?) way...

casseia's picture

Yes, pregnancy is a very interesting experience

and much, much stranger than most women let on. Really, laying eggs makes a lot more sense. Nobody said evolution was pretty, and human pregnancy has to clinch it. In the beginning (it is theorized) you have a situation where the risk to the fetus from environmental toxins in food outweighs the benefit of nutrition -- and thus it is possible to spend the first three months of pregnancy barfing without harm to the fetus -- in fact, the barfing is associated with a lower risk of miscarriage. Then at the end, humans have evolved right up to a cost-benefit limit with the ratio of the baby's head size to the mother's pelvic girth. The benefit of having a big human head for a big human brain just barely ekes past the cost of maternal-infant mortality exacted when it comes time to squeeze that puppy out. Compared to other mammals, too many of our babies get stuck, which leads to death unless you happen to be living in a time and place where there's a surgical plan B. (I was reading earlier today that the quality of reproductive healthcare in Afghanistan has plummeted back to pre-invasion levels or worse, and a woman dies in childbirth every 26 minutes there.)

E Vero's picture

Speaking of Motherhood

Did you ever read "Mother Nature" by Sarah Hrdy? You probably don't have time . . . but I think you would find it fascinating. Especially with regard to women's decision-making and trade-offs on whether or not to invest in any particular pregnancy.

E

gretavo's picture

eggs

aren't eggs kind of big for the hen? don't they come out kind of soft and harden outside for that reason? i wonder if there is any genetic similarity between eggshells and baby skulls--that would be weird!

As far as babies getting stuck, it happened to a neighbor of my parents' dog and she was in horrible pain, plus the dead puppy's head became swollen (I guess it was coming out backwards which was the problem) from infection. My mom tried to hlp but couldn't, and fetched a local vet-type who was able to pull it out. The dog subsequently adopted my parents and left the neighbors' house for good.

Yeah, evolution is a messy business--perfection is by no means the goal--instead trial and error produces a series of "whatever works" scenarios that only need to work often enough to ensure the production of the next generation... Despite his recent fixation with god, Richard Dawkins' earlier work The Selfish Gene is a must-read. It's in fact where he first coined the term meme for the cultural equivalent of a gene. The basic premise is that we wrongly focus solely on the survival of species as driving evolution when in fact it's really more about the survival of genes... Species come and go while their component genes spread through multiple species--hence the title--and much of cultural evolution can be seen as a similar struggle between the components of culture (memes)...

E Vero's picture

Geoff Miller's book (Mating

Geoff Miller's book (Mating Mind) is even better.
E
p.s. thank you for the avatar. It's my favorite!

casseia's picture

No, I haven't

I'll check it out, thanks :)

bruce1337's picture

Wellz...

From my transatlantic perspective, I can only agree that pro-this-anti-that are wedge issues of little significance, relative to real issues which they serve to distract from. Watching America going berserk over matters that one would expect to be topics of interest only in medieval theocracies always begets bewilderment. Anyway, good discussion -- and thanks for the forthright female perspective of pregnancy, cass. Alien death spores, lol. How about Alien Infant Death Spores -- AIDS -- for yet another can of worms? ;-)
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

gretavo's picture

SIDS and SBCS

sudden infant death syndrome and sudden building collapse syndrome might also be related in that they are both convenient excuses for something perhaps more nefarious. not necessarily of course, especially with SIDS, but hey, more fodder for the hard boiled kind of discussion we like here... :)

E Vero's picture

SIDS & vaccines

go together (in close temporal proximity).
E

casseia's picture

dz the comments-killer

Queen of slacking and procrastination that I am, I'm not going to point any fingers of blame, because any or all of these things could be attributed to not having enough time. I recall, however, that at the time blogs started needing approval, that was supposed to be a temporary measure, to be replaced by community moderation. (That was around the new year.)

No community moderation of blogs.

Then, settings were modified so that you can no longer see all posts on one page, and tracking new posts in a multi-page discussion is a real pain in the ass, because the "new" icon only shows on the front page. This was because due to the way drupal works, demand placed on the server was too much, so people coughed up money for a new server (including me and RT.)

No new server.

Finally, some number of people were banned. In RT's case, it was not because his posts were routinely voted down into double-digit negative numbers OR because he violated the guidelines that had been laid out for him (as far as I can tell.)

The overall effect is that discussions over at blogger over the last few days have become noticeably anemic, both in quantity and quality of posts. I think this is how dz would like it to be. Perhaps it's a momentary glitch in the discussion matrix, but I think it's more likely to be the way it stays.

dz has said on more than one occasion that he believes discussions at blogger are basically a waste of time. It took me a while to figure out why I think he's wrong. Discussions at 911blogger were a meme pressure-cooker, with a community of people constantly dissecting 911 news and 911 theory, and only the strongest 911 memes surviving. This was a function of discussion, not blogging. Perhaps it was like sausage-making and dz just didn't have the stomach for it. Or perhaps someone realized just how valuable it was to 911 Truth and decided it was time to pull the plug.

gretavo's picture

meme factory--exactly

the antithesis of the "top-down" approach preferred by the powers that be. screw em. squeeze us too hard and we will pop and infect others. :)

Annoymouse's picture

i quit 911blogger

well, for the moment. it's become such a disappointment after real strides had been made. screw 'em.
Happy Puerto Rican Day, RT!

gretavo's picture

IS IT?

PR day? I had no idea... probably just in new york! :)

bruce1337's picture

Whatever...

There's a saying here: "Man muss die Feste feiern wie sie fallen" -- "You gotta celebrate parties as they come"

I'm off to town -- happy PR day, everyone!
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

Annoymouse's picture

chicago also

humboldt park is going crazy tonight.
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=stationinfo&id=5393425

Annoymouse's picture

911B rules

"In RT's case, it was not because his posts were routinely voted down into double-digit negative numbers OR because he violated the guidelines that had been laid out for him (as far as I can tell.)"

Actually, the rules say that users are supposed to down-rate comments that violate the guidelines, so if there are no violations, there should be no downrating.

I can't see how Real Truther had routinely low ratings -- I saw routinely high ratings.

Ningen

gretavo's picture

rules as in the rules, not as in they rule... right?

They had to get rid of me because I was calling out some of the shills like Jon Gold to the point of making them ineffective. They told me I could no longer reply to him, and vice versa, which was supposed to solve the problem without having to resort to censoring me. In order to make sure this would happen a few users routinely provoked me and I suspect my response to one of the last to do so was seized on as the excuse needed. It was to the guy who called me an insane jew hating bigot, whom I responded to by calling him Zionist scum. Oh well, it was bound to happen, and I couldn't stand having to hold my tongue anymore anyway about the clear shillery on that site.

Danse's picture

Some interesting discussion here!

RT:

“The video clip that is supposed to make us realize how brilliant Stewart is is basically a series of jokes making light of the tragedy in Iraq.”

I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds much of Stewart’s shtick sickening. He can be funny as Hell but something about cracking jokes in the middle of a holocaust rubs me the wrong way. What is it: one million deaths in Iraq so far? Hyuk hyuk. Something tells me he wouldn’t be so fast and loose with his satire if the people being butchered were of white complexion. Or perhaps he would. Perhaps w’ere so cynical nowadays that everything is a joke. I'm waiting for the new comedy on Ted Bundy.

I read a book a few years ago on the importance of the “court jester” in preserving ruling class dominance. Literally an entire book. I wish I remembered the name of it. Its thesis was that the public mocking of authority figures actually serves as something of an escape valve for the plebs, allowing people to pretend everything is “normal” while their lives go down the toilet. It's been utilized since the birth of civilization. Or did you think Colbert got invited to Bush’s roasting by accident?

BTW, I made a special point of tracking down a clip I remembered of Stewart on Larry King saying he “supported” the war in Afghanistan (as opposed to the supposed “blunder” in Iraq) to feature in my next film. I was even contemplating writing CNN in order to acquire the video but luckily found it on Amule, no dollars necessary.

Casseia wrote:

“If those of us in the group who identify as leftist truthers had not been so used to being told to shut up about issues not directly related to 9/11 because they would "dilute the agenda" we might have seen it coming and prevented it. (Oddly, the "don't dilute the agenda" contingent is quite happy to bring in chemtrails, the NWO, Illuminati, and the government's attempts to "destroy our families" with domestic violence laws and the like.)”

It’s ok to talk about chemtrails, Satanic ritual abuse and the illuminati but corporate personhood, healthcare and democracy are off limits. Apparently. This is a natural consequence of the “populist right” seizing the day on 911 truth while the anti-authoritarian left was busy selling books on blowback. Which brings me to…

“For pro truth on the right I had Alex Jones and Ron Paul, and for the left... I could think of a politician, Kucinich or McKinney for example, but not an equivalent of AJ.”

They are there, they’re just difficult to find since they’ve been buried by the establishment left. Eric Fletcher for instance wrote three wonderful essays on 911 truth from an anarchist perspective, which I posted on blogger.

David Ray Griffin, if I had to classify him, I would do so as a “leftist” – though I would rather ditch the whole left/right thing altogether, as I’m sure would most truthers and DRG himself. Same applies for Ruppert, Ahmed, Zwicker, Tarpley, indeed nearly every prominent advocate of our cause: these people are not “right wing” by any stretch of the imagination.

Parenti is a truther but (according to Gold) would not feel welcome at a 911 truth conference – precisely because 911 truth has become so wrapped up with the populist right.

Schoenman I WOULD feel comfortable calling a “leftist” in the traditional sense – he quotes Marx frequently and even Lenin. I have no problem with Marx’s critique of capitalism, it’s his solutions I have a problem with. Schoenman’s an old-school sectarian who unfortunately has not learned the lessons of the Soviet Union: he appears ignorant of Kronstaadt and the crushing of the anarchist movement in Russia by Trotsky. Nevertheless, I consider him one of the most astute critics of the “war on terror” as well as Zionism. I highly recommend Schoenman's "Hidden History of Zionism". He’s also done some great lectures on animal rights.

Zinn is (imo) the greatest of the “leftist” intellectuals. Every thinking person should have already read "A People's History of the United States" as well as "The Zinn Reader".

Mike Whitney, Chris Floyd and Arundhati Roy have talked extensively about flase flag operations in the middle east, yet cowered from addressing 911. This will change eventually.

I spent a lot of time exchange emails with these characters but eventually decided I was better off just letting it go. There’s a new generation here, of which I am part, and we have no need for authority figures.

That includes the Founding Fathers.

Jpass's picture

Heh. I was banned from this site for the same thing

Basically the same thing got me banned from www.gnn.tv. There is a user there who used the name Israel4Ever and he called me an racist anti-semite. Oddly, I've never even covered Jews or Zionists. I called the guy a cock.

Zipp.. No more GNN for me.

RT, You ever read this?

http://www.disgrunt.com/blog/2006/10/17/is-gnn-a-psy-op

gretavo's picture

i hadn't read it but

after reading the first paragraph I think I can say that I agree wholeheartedly. As someone who started out as an antiwar activist (my first activist experience in life, at around age 25) I can say that the reason the antiwar movement failed so miserably is precisely because most of it, including GNN, is simply put FAKE.

Think about it--are the powers that be going to really wait for people to organize themselves? Of course not--that's why most of the early entries, especially those that like GNN always seemed to have suspiciously high "production values" I have come to believe were created so as to pre-empt a real and thus actually effective movement of dissent.

So what do they do? They get some marketers togetehr and say "we want a venue for all those young kids who are getting into activism, where they will be made to feel cool and hip AND righteous. They will learn things that most people don't know and that will make them think they've tapped into the "secret" stuff. They wil then be putty in your hands, to manipulate into behavior that is counterproductive--for example, antiwar activism that presupposes that the official conspiracy theory is true. Or mild criticism of Israel a la Chomsky that doesn't actually challenge the fundamental fradulent nature of the entire Zionist project and its role in falsifying history on behalf of the European financial elite (you BET I'm talking about the youknowwhat-O-caust, but not just!)

Effective rebuttals exist for all sanctioned political stances--that's the point. Once people start espousing politics that do not fall under the pre-fab and purposefully balanced paradigm, they threaten the control wielded by the weavers of the overall narrative of political disagreement. The comparison to "free radicals" in the body that can cause cancer are apt. A society is very much an organism not unlike our bodies. When the elements that make it up start acting out of their "normal" parameters, it introduces mutations that can either lead to a beneficial evolution, or a destructive cancer, or who knows what.

Our goal should be to break doen the levers of control like GNN, 911B and any other venue that seems to be serving a gatekeeping function...

Jpass's picture

Seriously

"Our goal should be to break doen the levers of control like GNN, 911B and any other venue that seems to be serving a gatekeeping function..."

GNN is bankrolled by Ian Inaaba, an investment banker that worked as the Manager of Aquisitions" for Gil Schwed's company, Choice Point. Ironically, Gil Schwed was part of a super sekrit computer intelligence company...and now his company makes computer security systems. Feel safe?

I firmly believe that computer systems around the world are never safe and easily compromised specifically because of situations like the Gil Schwed situation where sekritive intelligence people create billion dollar companies and sell computer security systems.

No thanks. Back up your data.

Zone Alarm anyone? Owned.

Exactly what you said in your post above is what I was saying on GNN for years. Interestingly, Reprehensor started at GNN and from what I remember was pretty much left to his own devices. I can't say the same for myself...as you can see I was banned for calling someone a cock because he labeled me as a racist.

Interestingly, I find that I run into various personalities while being active in the 9/11 movement that remind me of personalities on GNN and elsewhere.

Many call me paranoid...but I've often imagined how easy it would be to create a network of disinfo shills that patrol or control various web sites. It's not paranoid at all! It's totally sensical and I would expect any formidable intelligence agency to have operations like this at any time on any specific topic.

Then you consider that we are dealing with the demolition of the WTC complex! I laugh when people call me paranoid for theorizing on the online shill network...but they will then accept that 9/11 was an inside job. For me, you can't have one without the other.

gretavo's picture

no doubt

they would do all of this--as they always have. i think the bar for paranoia has risen steadily since 9/11 and that's a good thing.

dicktater's picture

Appears to be the same...

...that Reprecensor gave for closing his GNN account, only it was this link:

http://smartamerican.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=450&sid=23e78bf080cad58588135ef8e520ecef

--
"But truthfully, I don't really know. We've had trouble getting a handle on Building No. 7."
~~ Dr. Shyam Sunder - Acting Director Building and Fire Research Laboratory (NIST)