The Fatty Bin Laden piece of the "Conspiracy Theorist's" case...
was a honey pot from the beginning - PSYOP had planned to embarass us when the corrected NTSC conversion would be dropped on us
11% (2 votes)
was discredited and therefore bin Laden really DID DO 9/11 from a cave in Afghanistan on a dialysis machine
0% (0 votes)
is still valid because of so many other problems with the video, such as improper translation of the Arabic
47% (9 votes)
is the first one of many surprises and embarassments that the perps are planning to drop on us
5% (1 vote)
was never an important piece of evidence
37% (7 votes)
Total votes: 19
why it's irrelevant
because unless bin Laden acknowledges that explosives were set in the building, he is essentially supporting the false official conspiracy that planes brought the buildings down.
Since he doesn't seem to understand basic physics (if the tape is legit), and since whoever planted the demolition charges could not have been 100% sure that the "hijackers" would in fact succeed in their mission, which they would need to provide their cover story for the destruction, we can assume that if in fact bin Laden did believe that planes brought down the towers, and that fellow arab muslims were at the controls, he was very simply being deceived like everyone else about the events. I just don't see this guy, whose family is in the construction business, being that obtuse.
The simple fact that there was never any investigation into possible criminal actions by the (recently become) landlord and primary insurance beneficiary, when that would in any other such case have been the very FIRST thing that would have been done casts a shadow of suspicion, most likely warranted, over one person--Larry Silverstein. The investigation into his actions should thoroughly probe his connections in the Israeli government and the Mossad, all information pertaining to the buildings' security and access prior to 9/11 must be made public and examined, and the Dancing Israelis' testimony under interrogation must be released by the FBI and they must be subpoenaed along with all other Israeli nationals who were in the US working illegally in the months before 9/11.
That's of course just a thumbnail sketch of what a real investigation into the destruction of the WTC complex would entail. By stalling with both the original unprovable government conspiracy theory they buy time that they hope will render any future investigation impossible to conduct and also to prosecute. Stall stall stall. They get away with this because not enough people know the real issues involved.
They get away with this because so much of the (especially early) truth movement was formed precisely to lead people away from these key issues and to conflate the simple issue of responsibility for the illegal demolition of the WTC with all kinds of otehr agendas.
I propose we get specific in our message and start calling for an investigation into the illegal demolition of the world trade center and treat it like any other case of fraud, but also as a case that because of the politics involved has not been adequately investigated.
Is it any wonder why one of Jon Gold's favorite talking points has been that "this is not the controlled demolition movement?"
Well, Jon, maybe you're wrong, maybe this should be the CD movement. Maybe the families' concerns over alleged Patsystani wire transfers to alleged hijackers need not be our focus. Maybe you are deliberately trying to keep people from the strongest and most damning events that day. maybe? No, Jon Gold, that is EXACTLY what you are doing, and I hope for your sake it's because you're just really that dumb, because if it's on purpose...
(typing this for the 3rd time, site keeps kicking me off)
irrelevant is way too strong a word in my opinion. theres something to be said about exposing so called secondary lies like the fake confession, fake phonecalls etc. if people think the confession tape is fake or even just manipulated most of them will likely be a bit more open to the evidence of CD and will then want to know how it happened and who made it happen.
and i think Gold really is that dumb, he wants to play by the MSM's rules and play it "safe" while staying away from anything that might be called "anti-semitic" etc. hes truly a coward.
does it quit unexpectedly?
are you using firefox? if not, try it--i had big issues on comment sites with IExplorer...
yeah, sometimes when im just
yeah, sometimes when im just simply sitting here it craps out. doesnt seem to be acting up as much now though. im using explorer, i'll have to look into firefox, ive heard good things about it for a pretty long time now anyway.
I second that...
"I propose we get specific in our message and start calling for an investigation into the illegal demolition of the world trade center and treat it like any other case of fraud"
Maybe some sort of declaration should be drawn up. I'm on the same wavelength as gretavo and, so far, it seems it's the same with most others on the site.
My Idea For Focus:
Use the WTC Demolition as the gateway to a new investigation
Use WTC 7 As A Gateway to WTC demolition
In my mind there is no disputing WTC 7. It's the clencher.
Jon Gold is a conundrum. I'm torn because I have the urge to be politically correct and not call anyone a straight disinfo agent, whether knowingly or not. Then on the other hand I can not understand how someone would take a situation that is obviously clouded by disinformation and double or even triple agent intelligence officers...and push it so hard...and then come out almost against the 'demolition' angle with his "This is not the 911 Demolition Movement".
If it weren't for the obvious demolition of the WTC 1, 2, & 7 I might be able to understand his position that the pakistani wire thing is real important. Maybe it is, but I want a new investigation Yesturday, not in 75 years when I'm able to access information about triple agents who worked during the early part of the century.
It's simple really. We'll start where a real investigation should have started, at the crime scene.
Let's start with the crime scene, the OBVIOUS demolition of the towers...and more specifically WTC 7 as a starting point. Then, if it takes us to triple agents working for the ISI, CIA, and MI5...so be it.
some sort of declaration
what do you think about teaming up with U.S. Social Forum's Resolution? see my forum post on this.
I think that CD is the best approach with folks like the forum
it's simple, has the benefit of being able to focus on one very unsympathetic suspect, is based on science and established facts, includes an undeniable smoking gun in WTC7, and it is the one aspect of 9/11 where we're arguing about what HAPPENED not what DIDN'T happen.
let's do it people!!
social forum types
might also find it interesting to learn that Larry owned the Runway 69 strip club in New York AND tried to get an Ayn Randian free trade zone created in the Negev in Israel (in part by lobbying his right wing friends Sharon and Netanyahu) but was denied because of Israeli politician's refusal to compromise labor standards. And that one of his partners in this venture was David Yerushalmi of www.saneworks.us
Also, if the individual expresses dislike of Hillary Clinton, you can tell them that Larry is her biggest individual donor, and that he also gives money to republicans (including Joe Lieberman...)
honestly? this should be a slam dunk, which is surely why some people will discourage taking this approach.
I like that... start at the crime scene
I think one thing I'm going to do is make a poster to have while truthing that frames the issue just that way. I'm not sure what form a declaration could take, perhaps a letter or petition, though in the end whatever it is will probably just serve as publicity... maybe a letter-writing campaign to congress people? I dunno, I think we just need that meme to be given a nice push especially with the public. keep it really simple...
1. the investigation into the little discussed collapse of WTC7 is ongoing after 6 years with no end in sight
2. the evidence would seem to clearly indicate that WTC is a case of arson and insurance fraud (the insurance companies are complicit in this by paying the false claim and passing the costs on to the public in the form of higher premiums)
3. the case of WTC7 has serious implications for the rest of the official conspiracy but primarily with regard to the facts surrounding the destruction of the twin towers and murder of their occupants at the time (we also need to find out who if anyone died in WTC7)
4. this is America, no one is above the law (Scooter Libby case makes this a provocative meme these days)
5. WTC7 - Why is this incredibly important LOOSE END hidden and ignored? what will happen if we pull on it?
6. Reams of evidence of financial crimes being investigated by the SEC were destroyed--where is there a report of what was destroyed and its implications for any investigations or prosecutions?
7. Let the sunshine in - why the secrecy about WTC7
You get the idea... we have to treat WTC7 like the HUGE PROBLEM that it is. Suppose that many of us decided that every other 9/11 related issue was being covered well enough by others, and that we would focus on and promote this one. Not put all our eggs in the WTC7 basket as it were, but make sure that it is thoroughly investigated to the extent that we can and publicized. Connect it to the problematic destruction of the twin towers (more eggs there) with mention of the mountains of evidence consistent with explosives being used (and not consistent with the official version that proves nothing, on close inspection.)
I'm starting to think that doing the opposite of what Jon Gold says is the key here. He says it's not the controlled demolition movement? Well here's a statement:
I DISAGREE. THIS IS THE MOVEMENT TO DISCOVER THE TRUE CAUSE OF THE MAJORITY OF THE DEATHS ON 9/11 AND THAT IS CONTROLLED DEMOLITION. ARSON. INSURANCE FRAUD. MURDER.
what do we REALLY know about 9/11?
I haven't seen anything to show it to be a total psyop as of yet
But unlike some people I don't keep opinions when new credible info to the contrary surfaces.
ok I was trying to change my avatar to something that fits and..
it logged me out and I can't log back in, what the fuck.
sorry about that
you should be all set now...
thanks
Thank you kindly
nice avatar btw...
n/t
it's my symbol from Halo 2
:-)