It's beyond "artistic interpretation"

Annoymouse's picture

Is racism allowed here?

In another page of this website a regular contributor published
images by well-known racist "artist" David Dees. Objections to it
correctly brought on the question by one of the principal operators of
the site:
"As for David Dees, can the people who say he is a racist pig, etc.
maybe provide a bit more substance along with the accusations?"

Here is the substance, then, with a fresh request for the editors and
all contributors to this website to exercise mindful and critical
self-awareness and a political sense in publishing here. Is our
intention to create allies for 9/11 Truth or to build enemies?

* * *

When the Jewish Star of David is being used repeatedly in the most
condescending graphics to inspire hatred, when all the worst types of
stereotypes for Black, African-Americans are conjured to stir up
repulsion, when the worst of women-hating images are evoked
systematically in the "art" of David Dees, something is fueling it.

That "something" is not a mystery. It's racism, sexism and homophobia.
It's all over, infusing and infesting inside every little detail of of
David Dees' visual "art".

He's a supporter of the Chem-Trail theory of the environment; a
supporter of the "US Dollar is in danger" theory of economics. He's a
supporter of Right-wing libertarian Ron Paul who wants to "liberate"
Capital from the State, and to "physically secure the borders" right
now. David Dees and Ron Paul share the very same racist attitude - here
it is as a picture:
"La Raza", the Cosmic Race often self-identified within the community
as a Chicano and Mexican liberation oriented wing of internationalist
brotherhood and solidarity, presented here as a bunch of degenerate
drunken thugs and pimps destroying America:
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/truck_dees.jpg

And here it is as a Campaign Platform:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform...
Notice the highlights of Ron Paul's "excellence" in relation to immigrants, in his own words:
"- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa
holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise
violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall
that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty.
- No welfare for illegal aliens.
- End birthright citizenship."
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform...

Does the 911 Truth movement support all that? Does our wing of
the 911 Truth movement support all that? Or are we just an easy
mindless recruiting field for campaigns and organizations founded on
hate-politics?

Adding a little "z" on the Star of David does not make an illustration "anti-zionist". Here is it - you judge it:
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/nuke_dees2.jpg

David Dees represents Larry Silverstein as a cockroach. This evokes all
the nazi slogans to "exterminate the Jew", the "insect", the
"parasite". It's the exact same word campaign that the Zionist
"exterminators" use for the Palestinians.
(Please see the "Related" notes at the end of this article, citing
works by Robert Fisk and Stephen Lendman discussing the Cockroach
theme.)

Depicting the enemy as a cockroach is an old story, and there might be
times when it's appropriate. But ever since the Holocaust it is inexcusable to represent a Jew as a cockroach in a political context without qualification or explanation.

What do you think of this "political satyre" headline created by Dees?
"Mexican truckers cheer as Britney dedicates Nafta Hiway; Britney: "I love yall's Burritos":
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/nunion_dees.jpg

Is it a matter of "artistic interpretation" or just plain, crude
racism? Disguising it as "progressive" is the same thing Mussolini and
Hitler did, and now Ron Paul, David Dees are consciously doing, while
many misguided Truthers are just repeating the same pattern. Shame.

Check out the subtle homo-hatred here:
Dick Cheney with an earring (how erotic! ...whereas the illustrator
could have chosen any other location for that symbol). Dick Cheney as a
Jew-lover. Dick Cheney with a "crossed out" tattoo (...love gone
sour?). And sensuous clamps on his nipples:
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/chenpaul_dees1.jpg

There are so many other real reasons to oppose (and to
rightfully hate) Dick Cheney. But to invoke a version of gay sexuality
just for the purpose? Whose agenda is being served here?

Here, see the "Mexican hordes" invading Amerikkka (oops, I meant to say "America"):
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/border_dees.jpg
Do you see the racism?

Here, see the "Ghetto Pimp" running for President, rivaling the "Queen of the Cabal":
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/queenmaker_dees.jpg

Here is George Bush giving away sweet sensuous and virginal America to
be raped by Mexicans and mounted by the Canadian Mounties in a
legalized Union:
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/northamuniondees.jpg
Can you see the male-chauvinist twist and degenerate ideology of
patriarchy built into the racist "analysis" that generated the
illustration?

How do you like this "artist's illustration" of a Ku Klux Klan joke?
At the stadium. "Please stand ...for our National Anthem".
A Mexican Band takes the center and sings "Jose Canoe Si":
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/josedees.jpg

How 'bout Uncle Sam with a Mexican hat and the phrase "Get used to it"?
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/dees-usedtoitp.jpg
Is that racist enough?

I'd like to repeat the suggestion that David Dees is a racist pig. His work has no place here except it is accompanied by clear and loud denunciations of his hate-based politics.


Petros Evdokas
petros@cyprus-org.net
http://petros-evdokas.cyprus-org.net/Another-sort-of-Introduction.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Related

Discussing the Cockroach theme.
by Robert Fisk
"Ariel Sharon"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11479.htm
by Stephen Lendman
"Israel's Kafkaesque "Matrix Of Control"
http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-lendman020207.htm

More racist, sexist and gay-hating crap from David Dees, published by Rense (of course):
http://www.rense.com/1.mpicons/dees1.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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bruce1337's picture

I, for one, think you're overzealous.

Apart from doubtlessly anti-hispanic material, which I don't approve of, you fell rather short on: "the Jewish Star of David is being used repeatedly in the most condescending graphics to inspire hatred, when all the worst types of stereotypes for Black, African-Americans are conjured to stir up repulsion, when the worst of women-hating images are evoked systematically" -- the latter not being demonstrated at all, the former definitely not being used in "the most condescending" ways. Actually, I found the Cheney illustration quite amusing. Furthermore, I am thoroughly convinced that the US dollar is bound to implode in the not too distant future...

On topic of Larry the Cockroach, you just performed nothing else than reverse racism: unconditional absolution of all things jewish, evidently criminal or not -- all because of an event that is...let's just say quite disputed. I wouldn't take it for Gospel, if I were you.

But I'm not you, or else you wouldn't be making all this fuss. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

GlennG's picture

What's missing from Mr Dees' work

I'll tell you why it's blatantly anti-semitic for David Dees to be throwing around the Star of David as a symbol of imperialist aggression. Because NOWHERE in his work do I see the Christian Cross or the U. S. flag used for the same purpose.

Euro-American Christiandom has decimated more indigenous populations than any other variety of imperialism. Why Mr. Dee's obsession with the Jewish brand?

bruce1337's picture

Not sure if a body count should settle this...

but still, I'm curious: What numbers are you basing your claim on?

Dees' "obsession" with the jewish brand might be resulting from a good portion of self-righteousness, combined with the pretty much indisputable fact that under the cover this particular brand offers, a sacrosanct clique is running amok these days. Last time I checked, you could criticize bearers of the cross or the american flag without immediately being burned at the stake...

GlennG's picture

Just curious Bruce. What is

Just curious Bruce. What is your opinion on the burning of the American flag?

casseia's picture

My guess:

He's all for it -- but ask him about the German flag (he's probably fine with that, too.) Paint "all your base is belong to us" on a big piece of fabric, set fire to *that*, and he might raise an eyebrow.

[I'm staying on the periphery of this debate until I get done with an exam, btw.]

kate of the kiosk's picture

on the subject of flags and false flags, thought it might be

timely to repost our dear Prof Toth's submit from a few months back...

http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/388

bruce1337's picture

Haha, c455, almost spot on!

Actually, even burning "all your base" flags is fine with me -- as long as they are your own.

gretavo's picture

exactly--just like bras

ok to burn your own, not ok to burn someone else's. now, not sure how false flags and "falsies" compare, but my guess is that both can cause people to be disappointed when exposed. in any case, I can now say that Dees is most likely a bit of a prick, and maybe even a racist, but honestly, if he makes a decent piece of 9/11 related propaganda, I don't see what the big deal is posting it--people should feel more than welcome to remind people when it happens that Dees' work is questionable, and no one should be made to feel like posting his 9/11 related stuff is going to mark them as some kind of closet hater. Debate, but don't hate, yo!

gretavo's picture

Euro-American JUDEO-Christiandom

Let's be very clear here. Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the Torah and/or the Talmud will have to admit that the former abounds with glorification of genocide, ethnic cleansing, killing for one's tribal deity, and blood blood blood. The "old testament" is one of the most dehumanizing texts ever written down, and the Talmud one of the most xenophobic and, dare I say it, bizarre as all hell. The old testament, not the new, was routinely used to justify "white man's burden", manifest destiny, and slavery. While wealthy emancipated Jews and "Christian" European nobles funded and led the common folk into devastating wars and got rich off of the slave trade and colonial exploitation, black people and native Americans were being systematically enslaved and/or slaughtered. Of course the old testament includes the apparently pro-forma ten commandments, and the new testament for all its beautiful sermons on the mount, etc. also includes absurdities like the whole end-times narrative.

Today's Christian Zionists completely ignore every truly Christian moral teaching in pursuit of their end-times hokum just as today's Jewish Zionists treat the ten commandments like "just a goddamn piece of clay tablet" in pursuit of their own agenda of regional and global hegemony. I'm sorry but that is the gospel truth. Israel is no more a Jewish state than my underwear is Puerto Rican for my wearing it. Implicit in Zionism is a corrupt Judeo-Christian view of the world that teaches people to ask "What can God do for ME?!" It should come as no surprise that militant Islam seems to get most of its material, including the entire "al Qaeda" video canon, from the global elite. Pretty soon we are likely to see the creation of "militant Buddhism", that is once China has been fully Zionized and learn to create their own Tibetan enemies to their liking and to their best PR advantage. After all, China is the promised land of the Han majority, no?

larry horse's picture

i don't trust ...

the latest turn. it seems slippery and filled with barricades (and on you tube). remember the past. ow, so cryptic for those newbies, what'll i do?

gretavo's picture

Whoa! A real debate here?

Hey everyone, sorry for being scarce of late--I have indeed been truthing it up in real life and neglecting the virtual/second/online version of it. So much here to digest!

I thank Petros for substantiating (to some extent) his opinion of David Dees. I certainly find much of the stuff linked to to be in poor taste and even offensive (forgive me as a Puerto Rican for having some sympathy with our Mexican friends!) Dees does indeed seem to play to the "right wing" of the truth movement, the same one that Alex Jones plays to, the sometimes paranoid, gun-loving (not that there's anyth--er, too much wrong with that!), xenophobic crowd that tried to sell us all Ron Paul as some kind of crypto-truther when in fact he's just cryptic (and in my opinion a bit of a snake-oil salesman when it comes to his favorite yellow metal as a cure for all economic ills.

I think I speak for a lot of truthers when I say that one of the things that 9/11 Truth did for me was to open my eyes to the false dichotomy of traditional left/right politics. This meant welcoming and trying to see the point of view of any and all comers who spoke the truth about 9/11. Having at one point been a borderline anarcho-communist (in spirit anyway) I have in the past few years developed a much more nuanced view of those and other political terms, or better yet labels. I now realize I am not a product or object to be labeled, or to let myself be labeled. I am a sensitive and sentient living being who is absolutely fed up with being lied to, period.

I launched this blog over a year ago now (I think) with the invaluable support of a few others who like me felt that places like 911blogger were not interested in honest and open discussion, that they were in the business of manufacturing consent and that certain farm animals there were more equal than others. Our mission statement here is a work in progress and reflects some of the reasons why those of us who left 911blogger (or were banned) did so. One of the biggest problems that I and others felt was exemplified at 911blogger was the tendency to whitewash Zionism and its role in 9/11, a tendency that seemed to go hand in hand with efforts to somehow implicate Saudi Arabia and Pakistan on the flimsiest of evidence, to suggest that doubting the existence of actual Arab hijackers was an untenable position, that not deifying anyone claiming to be a victim's family member amounted to heresy, and that ultimate blame for 9/11 resided with President Bush, as if he was anything more than a useful idiot. This last claim is often coupled with the scapegoating of a black woman, Condi Rice, on the absurd premise that by supposedly ignoring a warning of something that didn't actually happen (bin Laden striking the U.S.) she was guilty of negligence or worse.

For that last reason I am also now glad to be more aware of Dees' proclivity for racial characterization in his work. I don't want to be a stickler for political correctness, but I can certainly see how depicting Obama as a pimp could be judged by normal people to be in poor taste at the very least, especially when seen in the light of his portrayal of Mexicans. Is immigration a problem, btw? Sure it is. Are immigrants to blame for it? Nonsense. Villifying them is quite simply a tactic of divide and conquer.

You'll note I'm sure that I have not yet mentioned the perceived anti-Jewishness in Dees' work. Let me be frank--black people and poor Mexicans, if one forgives the generalization, have on the whole been victims in history and not victimizers. The same cannot be said of Jews, who include both poor ghetto-dwelling victims (of their own leaders to a great extent) and elite victimizers par ezcellence including slave traders and debt slavers. The star of David may well have some place in Jewish tradition but it has been co-opted by a racist genocidal movement called Zionism that equals--yes, equals--the Nazis in perfidy. Not least because Zionists promoted and used Nazism to advance their cause, willingly sacrificing countless of "their own" and others in the process. This dirty little secret is of course not all that secret anymore, but there are those who predictably try to keep all focus on things like the Bush family's role in cooperating with the Nazis when it comes to much needed revision of the narrative of the 20th century and its wars.

Portraying Larry Silverstein as a cockroach IS wrong--it is a disservice to cockroaches. It is also an invitation to comparison with the allegation that the Nazis intended to exterminate the Jews of the world, I agree, and as such it is probably not the best way to express one's revulsion at the man. To believe, however, that it is inherently hateful to harbor doubts about the nature of the Nazi regime and the Holocaust is a non-starter. I will say right here and now that I do not believe in the "extermination view" of the "final solution". I will also say that this is based on dispassionate inquiry and not on any personal dislike of Jewish people as Jews. In fact my research has led me to feel extreme sympathy with Jews as victims of their own history and of many of their own fanatical racialist (if not actually racist) religious leaders. I am happy to explain my positions to anyone who will listen, but I will not tolerate accusations of malicious intent on my part. I have been called a "Nazi piece of shit" by the "truther with a heart of (Jon) Gold" because he was incapable of or unwilling to understand why I found the work of Jewish revisionist David Cole compelling. People like Jon Gold stress the need for unity because their positions are unsupported by the facts, and in the face of such bullshit I protest in the strongest terms. The more people like him try to scapegoat muslims, Arabs, or black women and stupid white men the more suspicious I become of those calls for unity and for sensitivity to the concerns of Jewish people.

I have enough respect for Jewish people to know that they can handle the truth, that they don't need Zionist propaganda to be accepted and that it is in fact that Zionist propaganda, like the absurd racist interpretation of the "chosen people" religious dogma that is their problem. And with the advent of 9/11 and the neoconservative coup we find this malady of race-based nationalism threatening the entire world by dividing it into groups lied to into believing that "the other" wants to destroy them and always will, just the same trick played for so many centuries on Jews in the ghettos, who were taught that the gentile would always hate them and so they should not seek to assimilate but rather to congregate separate from those they lived amongst.

The old paradigm is dead, folks. It is up to us to create a new one, so that the new century is NOT American, Zionist, Chinese, etc. but a HUMAN one. It is NOT going to be easy. The hardest step tough is the evry first--to free our own minds from all fears, especially the fear of thinking for ourselves, of learning new things, and of course the fear of "the other" no matter who that other may be.

kate of the kiosk's picture

gretavo, run for office!

how come you didn't go to harvard law...

hey, the Longhouse Coalition is looking for progressive/truly antiwar/911 truth candidates...

 

welcome back. it's good to read your just and noble-minded intellect again.

gretavo's picture

thanks but no thanks!

such kindness, kate! i did consider applying to law school until I talked to my dad who is a lawyer by training, who put me off the idea (not intentionally, I think). and politics is... >shiver< not something I like to think about...

Lazlo Toth's picture

The Project for a New Human Century

Hey Gret, nice to hear your voice again, my friend. After reading your ‘on-the-money’ thoughts about all these things, I remember now why I swam on over here to the WTCD island of brainy “truthers.” I have been away for a couple of weeks now as well, but my journey was in Sherman and Mr. Peabody’s “way-back machine” into the 1946 world of early Zionist terrorism and 24-hour British curfews and round-ups in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Man, those guys had a lot of explosives and bomb making equipment. It has been intense, to say the least.

You are definitely right about the cause and effect relationship between “the leadership” and “the people.” It historically does certainly appear that the Jews may be one of the world’s peoples to have been least served by their “leaderships” over time. Imagine yourself, rational as you are, as a Jew in Germany in March of 1933. You open up the paper and read that world Jewry (i.e. Vladimir Jabotinsky and the WZO) has declared “War on Germany” and is organizing a global boycott against German exports. Oh great. That’s just really swell. Imagine yourself a Jew in modern America who knows the operational history and patterns of the Hebrew underground in Palestine, then sees the 9/11 operation on TV, hears the official spin, and then realizes that the most likely suspects would best be found within an Israeli-American neocon alliance group, i.e. the Trotskyites with their doctrines of permanent revolutions and cyclical wars. As a Jewish person, you would have to be thinking to yourself in either of these situations, “is the leadership of our people trying to kill us all or start another holocaust? Have they now totally and completely lost their fucking minds?!?” Then it becomes a situation like the Americans, in the old, pre-Stephen Harper days, sewing Canadian flags to their knapsacks when traveling through Europe. With an American flag, you got tired of telling everyone that the insane criminals running the American government do not speak or operate in your name, like “I am not with these folks, okay? Yes, we all think he is retarded as well. Yes, the elections are fixed.” There was a poll I saw recently which said that 76% of American Jews are against the doctrines and policies of AIPAC (the representative of Likud in the U.S.), but that inconvenient fact, of course, is of absolutely no importance to “the leadership,” and sending a million eloquent and information-laden protest letters to a deaf and blind ruler is of no use.

And funny that you should mention the little-discussed, Zionist-Nazi relationship, because that is the section of my project I am working on now – the events and attempted alliances of the time when Naftali Lubenchick of the LeHI made a secret journey from Tel Aviv to Beirut in late 1940 to meet with Otto Werner von Hentig, emissary of the German Foreign Office to the Italian armistice committee in Vichy Syria. At this time, the anti-British, Zionist underground in Palestine was looking for new, more powerful allies in their attempt to establish Israel by force of arms. These Zionist militias were ready to militarily support whoever appeared to be winning the war, because the winner would control Palestine, and at the time, Hitler and Mussolini looked unbeatable. From the early 1930s, the Zionist Revisionists and militant right-wing in Palestine had always admired Mussolini and Hitler for their totalitarian approach to nationalism and fighting communism. In all this, there is also the history of “the Pact,” made between the WZO in Geneva and the Reich, whereby Hitler agreed to free the Jewish prisoners in Eastern Europe for $25.00 per head, provided they emmigrate to Palestine. The “leadership” then collected the money, and as Rabbi Weissmandl’s collected letters and documents show, decided to then keep it instead, with the idea that leaving the poor Jews of Eastern Europe to possibly die in the camps “as a sacrifice” would provide a better guilt-based bargaining chip for the creation of “Israel” after the war was over.

The Zionist propaganda never quits, and gets more stupid by the year. How uncensored “Holocaust” research translates into hatred for Jews is another hoax instilled by constant repetition into the land of the hypnotized TV audience at home. Many I know are fairly aware of the general composition of the group behind 9/11, and other such terror productions, along with their motives and methods, and we do not hate “the Jews,” nor do we hate ourselves. This ADL-devised, “self-hating Jew” meme is one of the most blatantly stupid propaganda templates of all, second only to Khazarian non-Semites screaming about anti-Semitism every five minutes or so.

I know that the Jewish people have been hoodwinked by their atheist “leadership,” including operators from within the KGB of the ‘40s and ’50s, into believing in the “sacrifice of the six million” and the “sacred Shoah myth of the Holocaust,” and not for rejecting the narration, but just for pointing out its cynical, leveraged usage in the commercial and political spheres, Dr. Norm got thrown out of Israel. They didn’t even give him time to browse in those Duty-Free automatic weapons shops at the airport. Knowing about the development and evolution of the “Holocaust story,” or who is really behind 9/11, does not translate into hatred for “the Jews.” Blanket hatred for every member of a single group is sheer lunacy anyways, as is the belief that all the Mexicans are conspiring against us, or it’s the commies. Does Rupert Murdoch or the AEI really think that unfettered “Holocaust research” will result in masses of people thinking that every Jew around the world since 1945 knew that “the Holocaust” was a vastly exaggerated historical narrative, but they all participated in a collective lie and conspiracy against us (whoever “us” may be)? Does the Zionist ideologue still really believe in Herzl’s extreme doctrine of the “good Gentile” (who openly expresses his naturally, and genetically inherent anti-Semitism) and the “bad Gentile” (who conceals his naturally, and genetically inherent anti-Semitism)? The modern Zionist propaganda machine is clearly run by complete psychopathic paranoids and fear-mongers. No one is more suited to the task of creating and stage-managing a “global fear and terror crisis with a bearded Muslim jihadi warrior around every corner” than the Zionist news and image factories. This is their forté and their time to do what they do best, make it up and craft a good story for the home viewer.

On the immigration issue and issues of refraining from blaming the victims of a sick and greedy world, I direct your attention to Postville, Iowa – a small German Lutheran town taken over in the late 1990s by the Rubashkin family of Brooklyn and their methamphetamine dealer friends from Israel. They now run the town from the mayor’s office to the local police chief. There is also only one major employer in town, and that is Agro-processors, Inc, a Kosher slaughter house and meat processing plant (with a meth lab in the back). Nothing about the plant is Kosher, however. It is a filthy slave dump run from “Kosher Hill,” a business community that has elevated the town’s population to 50% illegal Mexican workers who are treated by the “Rabbis” and their extended family members like animals, and forced to live in nearby camps of squalor. Of course, Amy Goodman on “Democracy Now” reported on this story, but completely failed to mention the meth lab, or the Rabbis of the Rubashkin family, or that the plant was even a Kosher meat processing operation, one of the biggest in the country. Instead of mentioning all the Jewish connections, however, she only mentioned the arrests of the nearly 300 illegals working at this “food processing plant” in Iowa. The slave-owners (who were themselves once slaves in Egypt, or so the tale goes), naturally, will face no prosecution, and their illegal meth business is still safe, sound, and protected. Yes, I also feel sorry for “the poor immigrant” (a good Dylan song, btw), and it is not the poor man to blame for this situation. It is the greedy Mexican ruling class and Zionist slave-owners, like the Rubashkins, who think that not, only are the Mexicans sub-human filth to be enslaved, but that the German Lutherans, whose town they invaded and turned into a cross between Krakow and Tijuana, are also in the racially despised Mexican category, at least that is the impression the townspeople get from their new overlords up on Kosher Hill.

Anyways G, long story short, welcome back from vacation. Later...

gretavo's picture

great parallels...

the whole crypto-American disguised as Canadian trick! having grown up in an American diplomatic family overseas I know the feeling of being stuck with an association that one depends on at the same time as one often finds embarassment in. maybe this is why (in addition to being the youngest of three boys) I like to encourage Jews to rebel against Zionism. I know you don't have to hate America to hold it accountable for eveything it has done and continues to do wrong, nor do you have to hate Judaism or Jews in order to be honest about THEIR warts and all. One of the most profoundly religious things I believe is that none of us is innocent and that it is sinful to indulge in self-exculpation. It is only by forgiving others that we can hope to be forgiven ourselves and only by being truly humble that we can begin to understand why we would even seek forgiveness in the first place. I realize to some this sounds like namby pamby sentimentalism unworthy of aspiring ubermenschen but f*** it, I have nothing to prove to anyone, just a single, simple life to live the best way I can think to. Anyway it's good to be back--missed the spiritual kinship! :)

whitey's picture

Thought police

I wondered when they would surface on this site. As far as Dee goes, I didn't know his name but I am familiar with several of his images. I fully approve of many of his images that I have seen. As far as racism, art work is in the eye of the beholder. For example, the Silverstein cockroach image seemed to me to be a great commentary on the man's scurrilous behavior. As far as labeling all Jews as cockroaches I just don't see it (maybe if there were images of random Jew's such as children, adolescents, and adults which would convey in my mind that the artist thought they were all cockroaches).

We are a result of what we have been exposed to in our environment. Children raised in a household with parents who label all individuals from a particular race in a specific manner may influence how that child stereotypes all individuals from that race. Children who are raised in a household which promotes the idea that they are always persecuted by individuals of a specific race may be more likely to grow up perceiving this stereotyped group of individuals as constantly oppressing.

Our perceptions are merely filters of reality. For example, look at Petros interpretation of the Silverstein/cockroach vs. mine. Petros is relying upon historical context to shape his/her (sorry dunno your sex :P) perception of the artwork. I am only relying upon the historical context of Silverstein's own behavior to shape my perception.

Dee's work does appeal to those who have bought into the notion of a "savior" in Ron Paul. I've followed his work for years at antiwar.com. I do not trust the man and given the elite's proclivity for planning way into the future I questioned his legitimacy. He proved me right in my mind when he started promoting statist propaganda and he avoided the facts with 911 (I don't care if it's to avoid the media attacks, people can see through the media and it would make the media look worse than they already do).

I don't see how there is "homo-hatred" in the Cheney image. The star of David earring in my mind simply associates Cheney and all of the Jewish/Zionists he works with to implement PNAC objectives. Now it would be great if there was a symbol for Zionists just as there was a symbol Nazi's co-opted, the swastika. Zionists have, I believe, by and large co-opted the Star of David. How does an artist convey this? Every time we see a swastika most of us think of Nazi's. The pairing of those stimuli has occurred more than the pairing of the swastika and ancient religions who also used the symbol.

"Does the 911 Truth movement support all that? Does our wing of the 911 Truth movement support all that? Or are we just an easy mindless recruiting field for campaigns and organizations founded on hate-politics?"

I come to this site and read here more than any other 911 site not because I associate myself with a "wing" of the 911 movement because I don't. I come here because I don't think that any of the authors are cointel AND they tend to make points I agree with based on facts. I think most of the people who post here would agree that they are individualists who do not follow the pack even though they may agree on many issues. I personally don't want to be labeled as part of a "wing" because I know that is the first step towards stereotyping the entire "wing". As far as "us" being "mindless" and "easily recruited", I don't think you've spent enough time reading articles on this site. Please read more and you may come to a different understanding of how we perceive some of Dee's artwork.

"He's a supporter of the Chem-Trail theory of the environment; a supporter of the "US Dollar is in danger" theory of economics. He's a supporter of Right-wing libertarian Ron Paul who wants to "liberate" Capital from the State, and to "physically secure the borders" right now. David Dees and Ron Paul share the very same racist attitude - here it is as a picture:"

The phenomenon called chem-trails is real. Any one debating that hasn't stepped outside and looked at the skies. I've driven across the US from DC to California a total of about 8 times now. I've never seen the spraying in the barren regions; however they are all over the East coast and populated areas. I have pictures and video. I have seen massive halo's which occur when the sun hits the chem-trail mists. These halo's do not occur with natural clouds.
The dollar is in danger. I suggest you investigate how the dollar works and maybe you'll understand why many think it is in trouble. Paul is IMO a distraction to appease the masses who are fed up with things but aren't at the point of revolting. He gives them an outlet for their energy. If he didn't exist what kind out outlet would the masses put their energy into? Quite possibly something much more useful :P.

This response is all over the place with the topics, sorry.

kate of the kiosk's picture

like how you write/Arun Gandhi

it's almost as if i can hear your voice..

so what are we going to do about the extradition of intellects from universities...like Arun Gandhi...i would welcome some more discourse on this.

Lazlo Toth's picture

Thanks Whitey, and re: the Cucarachas of Photoshop

Thanks for your great comments Whitey,

You may not say much often, but when you do, it is always insightful and well worth reading. On the continuously subjective nature of art and politics, here was my original take on David Dees’ Larry Silverborg cockroach portrayal. If you remember, there was a flashlight of 9/11 Truth shining on him. I saw this image combination, and having once or twice been subjected to a kitchen invasion of these fast-moving little tanks, got the impression that Dees was trying to bring to the viewer’s mind the symbolism of cockroaches scurrying into their dark hiding places when the kitchen light (of truth) is suddenly turned on. Of course, if one had never experienced the absolute thrill of turning on your kitchen light at 3 a.m. and seeing these creatures run for cover, that person would probably not pick up on this symbolism. I suppose then that the next programmed meme available to the viewer’s mind might be the supposed Nazi notion of exterminating the Jews like “cockroaches,” although I am not too certain that Germany has the cockroaches for them to have made this comparison, but don’t quote me on that. I do know they are native to, and fairly prevalent in, the southwestern states of the U.S., Mexico, and (for whatever reason) large, eastern urban centers like New York. It is also fairly well documented (from several sides) that Hitler was a deportation kind of guy, not an exterminator, hence the existence of a deal made between the WZO in Geneva and the Reich for Jewish detention camp freedom and emigration to Palestine at $25 per person. I am not certain if there were special family package deals or not, but this will get us off into a whole other lengthy topic, both highly interesting and, for whatever reasons, apparently deemed controversial, the discussion of which is a legislated, “punishable criminal offense” in many Israeli vassal countries around the globe. This is what is defined as true chutzpah, when you actually enact legislation to censor the investigation and discussion of history. It is the very apex of Orwellianism, yet like all historical tyrannies of the mind, this too shall perish into the despised shit-heap of forces which tried, and in the end, miserably failed, to dominate “the known world.”

I do agree with Gretavo though that it is an insult to cockroaches everywhere to compare them to Lucky Larry, and David Dees should apologize. I mean, no cockroach, even for a personal $7-12 billion pre-‘Crash of 2008’ dolleros in property insurance fraud, would ever allow his asbestos and confidential documents-filled properties to be targeted by large aircraft flown by remote avionics technology, and then be blown up by Israeli demolition crews (taking the lives of 3,000 goyim as a “sacrifice”) just to create the right conditions for engaging the young men and women of his host country’s armed forces to lay down their lives—as well as the financial and political health of their republic—to do Israel’s dirty work of Semitic genocide in the Middle East. None of the cockroaches I ever saw run at the flick of the kitchen light would have done that. And by the way, there is no such thing as a “dirty” cockroach. They are very clean creatures, like cats (though certainly not as cute), constantly cleaning and grooming themselves (for that next big date behind the AJAX cleanser can at 3 a.m.).

I, like you, was also not aware that we were part of the wing of something. Gretavo’s original offer was to pop on by for “wings and beer,” which suited me just fine. Also there was something about honestly and fearlessly speaking the truth as you found it to be, even if that truth might be that the Russian, German, and International Red Cross documents all report “only” 278,000 total German detention camp deaths at the end of the war. As Groucho Marx once said, “I will join no club that will have someone like myself as a member,” and I hope the wings and beer offer is still standing.

Too bad about the svastika and its modern appropriation by the German National Socialist Party. It is only a benign, well-designed, and philosophically excellent, solar graphic symbol. If you ever travel by train through the countryside of India, you will see this symbol everywhere, especially during times of the year when national religious festivals are being held. Placing outside your door two clay pots of water with svastikas painted on them in red paint is supposed to bring good luck to your home (or at least keep the Gestapo away). The svastika’s earliest usage is actually found in southern Mesopotamia on Sumerian pottery, c. 3200 BCE.

One of the Orwellian missions of the modern media, through constant, loud repetition, and an atmosphere of social peer-pressure, is to alter the mind of the home-viewer by transforming empirically based “truth-politics” into something they call “hate-politics,” or “hate speech.” Why is this? It is because the PTB “hate getting caught in an orchestrated lie.” They want to commit crimes, yet still have people look well upon them. Thus, when they hear the truth spoken, it sounds like “hate speech,” for they know that when the hammer finally comes down, they are going to hate being locked up in a federal prison and having all their family assets seized based on charges of national treason and war crimes. They do not want to admit it, but it appears from recent and pending “domestic terrorism” legislation, that they do indeed fear and take seriously the non-Muslim section of the American people, and they have counted the numbers, and if you are on the side of the real criminals and terrorists, the numbers are not promising or favorable. Does Dees believe that Bushco has installed all the physical and ‘off-the-books’ legislative components necessary for the implementation of martial law and the detainment of American dissidents in a U.S. gulag system? It appears from many of the fascinating documents publicly available on many .gov websites that he has.

Dees believes in chemtrails? Does that mean he believes in the (so obvious) ones we see over my village all the time, like just the other day? Things are certainly getting super weird, that’s for sure.

And hey, no need to apologize, Whitey, for putting together multi-subject, random, coherent comments. We live in a time where there is so much psychopathic insanity and near-sci-fi criminality happening on so many different levels, and affecting so many different components of the modern world, that sometimes when we speak or write, or scream in the street, it just all comes flowing out like that. Hey, whatever. That’s just the way it is. And I am not apologizing for my rambling response to your rambling response. Thanks again, my friend. Be well.

gretavo's picture

cockroaches also have wings...

And they may be clean and generally law abiding, but I can't bring myself to allow them to live rent free in my property.

What shouldn't be forgotten when discussing the controversial aspects of WW2 is that millions of people of all kinds did suffer, and those millions included a huge number of Jewish families unceremoniously deported as part of some elites' race-based master plan. Whitewashing Nazi thuggery is NOT what re-examining the official holocaust narrative is about, in other words. I know that is a hard fact to become accustomed to--it took me who isn't Jewish or German a while to stop feeling weird about it.

What has to be kept in mind is that no matter much real suffering the Jews of Europe endured no amount would justify saddling anyone with guilt for crimes that were not committed. We know for example that neither soap nor lampshades were made out of dead Jews, but many of us learned those allegations as documented fact when we were children. The mistake that so many understandably make these days is to think that accepting that "homicidal gas chambers being used to kill 6 million Jews in an attempt at exterminating them" is more myth than reality somehow diminishes our sympathy and respect for the victims of the Nazis. In fact the opposite is true. To exaggerate and invent details that are false, like human soap, is what in fact cheapens the memory of the very real suffering of those families who were forcibly expelled from their homes and relocated to squalid prison camps, of those who were assaulted in the process, and of those who died as a result of it.

I myself was a very reluctant holocaust researcher at first, but not as much after learning about David Cole, whose courage is literally off the charts for what he tried to do as a morally upstanding human being who happens to be Jewish. Is it honoring the victims of Nazi aggression to aggressively persecute a Jew who decides to break the taboo against open discussion of problems with the conventional historical interpretation of Jewish suffering? Would it be honoring the victims to deliberately ignore the persecution of just *one* more Jew in order that men like Steven Spielberg not be embarassed for making propaganda for $$ and states like Israel continue to be given carte blanche to commit crimes against humanity? If David Cole was effectively silenced by threats from documented terrorists and no one could care less, can we safely write off Jews as being the first to voluntarily give up the right to think for themselves as individuals?

Or could it be that a great many Jews would have no problem (after the initial shock and feelings of betrayal wore off) handling the truth that like Americans they grew up with a less than honest version of their people's history taught to them? Like pretty much everyone else in the world who is born into a group that considers itself special and different from other people? And that removing this fundamentally spiritually corrosive pressure to conform to violently enforced codes of solidarity might free them to pursue their identity, including Judaism/Jewishness or not, as they may freely choose, in harmony with all of their fellow humans? And that the cloud of fear born of propaganda currently covering the earth might lift so that we may finally see each other in the full light of truth and recognize our common humanity and duty to love each other as ourselves?

Would that really be so bad?

whitey's picture

"I am not certain if there

"I am not certain if there were special family package deals or not, but this will get us off into a whole other lengthy topic, both highly interesting and, for whatever reasons, apparently deemed controversial, the discussion of which is a legislated, “punishable criminal offense” in many Israeli vassal countries around the globe."

The punishment for researching the details of the holocaust is a huge red flag for me. Any one who is not indoctrinated from birth that their relatives/ethnic group was targeted for extermination is going to be more open to researching the details. Some one who has been told these things from birth is going to have a hell of a time objectively analyzing the facts because the "truth" of the matter has been repetitively reinforced for years on end and during the most impressionable years. I've been torn trying to figure out how to approach this issue with a friend of mine especially since I'm not sure I even completely trust him any more. We've had very deep and serious discussions on almost every topic and I know he supports a one world government. I know now that he believes might is right. I asked him, "If land has been tended by a family for generations do they have the right to just be left alone?" He responded by saying that "someone else could be using the land". The read between the lines unspoken commentary is that "someone more deserving could be using the land". I have never broached the topic of the holocaust with him because I understand the emotions tied to it for the average Jewish individual. I doubt that I could ever bring up the topic with him with out him getting pissed off. I haven't spoken to him in some time since asking the question about land. I find it hard to talk to some one who believes that it is okay to dispossess some people of land for another set of people (who are implicitly more deserving of the said land). This is a complete tangent sorry. My situation with this friend has been so difficult for me to deal with because we were so close and agreed on so many other issues.

Even though I wouldn't consider myself a part of some truth "wing" I would certainly not mind meeting some of you all on this website. I have a feeling it would be the kind of thing where we stay up the entire night discussing a multitude of social issues.

kate of the kiosk's picture

hey, whitey, i had a conversation today

with a cohort, fellow lib dude, knows a lot about history..he happened to see my reinvestigate 911 poster and commented.. - you know why 9/11 happened, there is one reason, and only one reason - our bases in Saudi Arabia!!!

okaaa? so i started to talk about the 5 dancing israelis, the mossad, the towers being demolitioned.  probably not by OBL and muslims, named some neocon names...the remote control planes, the holes in the pentagon, etc...amazingly, for someone who had never really gone down these rabbit holes, he conceded! and then adamantly declared - you know, i don't want to seem antisemitic, but there is one rogue nation that is the worst, absolute worst as far as human rights..and that is Israel!! amazing

 this fellow was not Jewish;  however, I commisurate with you regarding your good friend with whom you have been so close and in agreement with on so many other issues...it is really sad. that is the whole problem with the so-called left/democrats/progressive/intellectuals, etc. 

Somewhere on here I think Petras posted the email conversation between Dr. Kevin Barrett and Dr. Noam Chomsky....fascinating. Chomsky refused to go there on the subject of 9/11. this has been such a disappointment to our movement. 

thanks for your thoughts, and persevere! k

and, gretavo has such a kooky sense of poking fun through posing as other characters, does he not? (lihopapotamus, etc) 

 

whitey's picture

Actually I was completely

Actually I was completely clueless that he was posing as Lihopapotamus. I guess I hadn't been following things as closely as I thought I was here :P. I've been had!

As far as things go with my friend, I seriously wonder if he's a Zionist and has never mentioned it to me intentionally. When I first started getting curious as to what Zionism was, I asked him on his wedding night when it was just he and I regarding what it was. Unfortunately we had been drinking (I was more tanked than he simply because I just don't drink any more and I have low tolerance) and he had opened a bottle of wine. If I remember correctly (and I believe I do) it was cracked just prior to my question about Zionism and from that point I had my glass filled at least 2 or 3 times. He didn't go into much detail about Zionism but he did state something about it being bad and how Noam Chomsky was an anti-zionist (the only reason I can figure that he cited Noam is because he is supposed to be an authoritative figure on "progressive" issues. I heard Noam's comments regarding 9/11 prior to ever reading any of his work so I already understood his role as a propagandist; however, my friend was unaware of this).

At any rate, many of the discussions we have had revolved around society, policies, and human interactions. We worked together in the same cognitive neuroscience brain imaging lab so that's how we met. Looking back on the more recent conversations I truly wonder if my feedback on specific human behavior issues could have been assessed as part of social engineering planning. ie: me = useful idiot. At this point I'll keep wondering about that because the context of some of the topics was random and seemed out of place. I would have questions posed to me "out of curiosity" and these involved such things as why more people appeared to be liberal in highly populated regions vs. rural regions.

The one other nagging thing that makes me question who my friend may really be is that when we discussed the WTC collapse I cited three possibilities for the towers: Absolutely no collapse, partial collapse, and total collapse. He was promoting the OCT claiming the weight at the top was too much etc. I was claiming that no collapse was possible. When I mentioned the 3 possibilities and the evidence supporting the probability of no collapse he had a massive micro-expression of contempt flash across the left side of his face. That has been the one event that led me to pose the questions regarding the right of people to be left alone on land tended for generations by their family.

Contempt- 1. the feeling with which a person regards anything considered mean, vile, or worthless; disdain; scorn.

I'm trained at reading micro-expressions and it completely threw me off seeing this flash across his face. Any way this is another long winded passage. The situation with him has weighed heavy on my mind because we had been such good friends but I just feel like he isn't being honest with me regarding 9/11.

I recommend all of you check out micro-expressions and look into Paul Ekman's work. There are many ways of assessing information which others convey, most of them are clear to any one: smiles, frowns, cheerful tone of voice, waving, middle finger. Many are subtle: reading between the lines, micro-expressions (milli-second expressions on the face), twiddling of fingers (Kerry's famous finger twitching during the bookstore interview where some one asked about WTC7). Mastering the detection of the subtle information is crucial in determining what is going through the mind of the individual. Okay gotta end this meandering rant =P.

Hope you all are having a good weekend.

gretavo's picture

well said whitey!

I too think that folks here are an honest bunch, and that when we disagree we don't accuse each other of trying to deliberately sabotage the movement. I, for example, am agnostic on chemtrails, and I am so because I just haven't been convinced either way. I'm glad there are people who don't hold that aginst me and in turn I am open about my doubts and will always be happy to consider any good information. It's SO important to combat groupthink and sometimes that means having to play devil's advocate and risk not being one of the "cool kids", or "good kids", depending on whether it's the adults or the other kids making the call. I know I could be more popular and heck maybe even have a girlfriend, settle down and get married and have a nice job and a big house with a pool and a nice car if I do and say what certain people would like me to. But I couldn't respect myself if I did that, and I would never be able to forgive myself if I turned my back on all of the world's oppressed in exchange for a few years of the good life (which will invariably and for everyone end one way or another!) That even a handful of others in the whole wide Internets are also down with that more or less has been one of my life's greatest discoveries and a constant source of inspiration and strength to push the truth rock back up the mountain everytime someone pushes it down. To think that some day our efforts will not be nearly as effectively opposed, and that then the sky will be the limit for our rolling rock... anyway, rolling, rambling--all good here at WTCD! thanks to all for sticking around!

gretavo's picture

then there's David Rees with an R

...who writes the often funny but unfortunately 9/11-denying and also Ahmedinejad slandering Get Your War On...

See, the President of Iran is not actually a dictator, but if you are a controlled fake-left cartoonist you might be forgiven for thinking so!

whitey's picture

This is an example of the

This is an example of the early brain washing of children in Israel to support violence against their neighbors. The same thing has happened here with our media attacking Israel's neighbors and labeling Arabs as terrorists. Some parents have passed on their hatred of "towel-heads" and "sand-niggers".

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=13453