I found these to be excellent quotes

Annoymouse's picture

By Lazlo Toth:
"It is my sincere hope, however, that we will understand that there is
a real disconnect between the Jewish people and the wealthy globalist
psychos who speak and operate in their names. All Italians are not in
the Mafia. This is a horrific experience we can all share – being ruled
by a degenerate, paranoid elite minority who want to play global
totalitarian slave-master. For example, just because I know that
Israeli operatives and dual-national Neo-con operatives and various
high-level sayanim were up to their eyeballs in the planning,
execution, and cover-up of the 9/11 thing, doesn’t mean I am going to
go burn down the houses of my two best friends from childhood, who are
Jewish, or sneer at every Israeli I meet. I think that we are all
mentally mature enough to separate a couple of hundred criminals from a
people numbering in the millions. And that works both ways, for Muslims
and for Jews.":
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/1206

And this, by Gretavo:
"Should the land today called Israel be a welcoming place for Jews and
a center of Judaism? It would be absurd for that not to be the case.
Should this be accomplished by evicting a native population that also
feels a strong bond with the land? Ahhh, there's the rub ain't it. So
long as good people of all stripes who understand this are allowed (or
allow themselves) to be deceived, intimidated, and manipulated the
world will run the risk of nuclear armaggedon":
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/1206#comment-11445

But unfortunately, the editorial and political thrust of the website in
general, keeps slipping toward embracing other, not so clear or
universal views, approaches, and analysis. It's fortunate that there
isn't any organizing taking place here on the basis of those other
views, with actual reprecursions in the tangible world. Still, they
contribute to a political climate in which hate-based politics - aimed
at the jewish identity - can be seen (or misconstrued) as credible. I
believe that more caution and discernment should be exercised here by
authors, editors and operators of the site.

Additionally, many of things being said here about jewish people would never
be said if the authors were actually signing their own names to what
they say. They'd have to think twice about facing lovers, friends,
comrades, neighbours and co-workers, if they could be held accountable
for what they write here.

But that's the thing. The Truth movement needs desperately forums,
organs of expression and vehicles for organizing which cultivate and
promote personal accountability, and responsibility with a human face
to complement the sharp and intelligent political writing that's
published here.

Petros Evdokas
http://petros-evdokas.cyprus-org.net/Another-sort-of-Introduction.html
___________

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tahooey's picture

you're entitled to your opinions

but my dad always told me

"opinions are like a%%holes, everyone's got one and they usually stink."

i guess the thing to do is

"be the change you wish to see in the blog"

Big_D's picture

Hmm.

What would help is if you'd give an example of exactly what you find objectionable.

gretavo's picture

as usual P, I admire your willingness to express your dissent

but I will echo the previous comment and ask what exactly you find objectionable. we do make a point here of teasing a bit--not Jews but Zionists and Israelis. a real friend does not shy away from leveling much needed criticism when it absolutely must be done. i believe we are at that point. all things considered I think that our approach here is pretty fair, lighthearted, and ultimately very well-intentioned. I can't think of many mainstream or even truth sites that try to do as much as we do to a) reveal the most diffciult and necessary truths and b) to do so in a way that leaves plenty of room for people to not feel threatened. what we want to make clear is that Zionism as it exists is a fraud that has been perpetrated on the entire world by people who no one in their right mind would consider real Jews, unless it is someone who has drunk so much of the kool-aid that they actually think the existing Zionist movement has something to do with the religion of Judaism.

That said, I harbor no illusions about Judaism itself--like Christianity, Islam and even Buddhism it is open to unhelpful interpretations and therefore has like all other religions potential for abuse. These are not blanket indictments of a people--they are facts that all of us must deal with in the same manner that we should deal with the existence of militant strains of Islam, Christian televangelists, the caste system in India, authoritarianism in all its forms, etc. Why? Because as human beings we should be as free as possible, and all of the above are methods of manipulation and coercion. Some of us also feel that it is not OK to "live and let live" when it comes to oppressors outside our own borders of oppression. Let me be clear--I am indeed an internationalist--a globalist (AAAA!!) in a specific sense. I believe that there are in fact universal values to which we should aspire together as a planet. It should not be hard to figure out what those values are (to me.) Freedom from oppression, coercion, manipulation, and violence. Tolerance of differences. Appreciation of the fact that we must share a planet and be good stewards of it. To the extent that "the Mullahs" of the world are guilty of not living up to these values I hold them accountable. But it is not the Mullahs who are calling the shots these days. Nor is it of course "the Jews". But those who ARE calling the shots are quite happy it seems to pit not just those two groups but countless others against each other through a grotesque habit dating back centuries of deceit, theft, and atrocious violations of the standards of human decency that any sane person holds.

In the world today there is one known arsenal of secret and undeclared, unacknowledged nuclear weapons. They are within the borders of a state founded on gross violations of human rights. A state that seems to have been involved in the commission of one of the most shocking crimes in history. A state that falsely claims to represent a group of people who are bullied and lied to into willing submission. Man, if you know of a better way to deal with this situation you should start sharing and quick. My own approach should be clear--break down the psychological and emotional barriers to learning the truth, use verbal jabs and barbs as opposed to fists and barbed wire, and leave open a door, however small and uncomfortable to go through, that leads to a universal standard of peace, justice, and indeed love. There is no one who can't fit through that door, though it is easier for some--that is not my fault.

As I said, I have found peace with my approach, and if I don't use my real name on this site it is not because of a lack of confidence in it but a lack of confidence in the world. For the time being, 9/11 is enough of a shock to be associated with in "real life", though you are wrong to think that I do not actually go beyond 9/11 in other forums where I know I am among true friends, however much they may (for now) disagree with what I say. There is a reason why our movement (the real truth movement not the fake one) is unstoppable, and it's only partly to do with the fact that we are right. But that is a story for another day, my friend! A day that will hopefully come sooner rather than later. And it will be a joyful day at last.

kate of the kiosk's picture

objectionable or playing fair

and maybe a little payback time...

dear Petras, so many objectionable, maligning, malfeascant, and literally murderous comments and actions have been directed towards muslims and arabs..this has been acceptable!!??  look at the numbers, good man! so as it turns out, after tedious truth research,  and having gone down so many rabbit holes, and having swallowed many a painful red pill, many of us in the real movement welcome this little site...its insight, research, courage, and its facetious witty sarcasm when needed.  more than fair. are we less than loving at times? perhaps, but mostly just angry, frustrated, disgusted...trying hard to continue to embrace nonviolence.

i continue to hang and love with my jewish friends and neighbors. although, it is difficult not to be disappointed by their recalcitrance in the face of the big lie, and therefore  to dissociate themselves from the zionist propaganda and identy alignment with the state of israel deeply embedded in their emotional psyches...that is another whole study, and for that reason, I welcome Lazlo's research and commentary.

As I have always said, when it comes to justice and truth, and taking the moral road, folks need to drop their tribal alignments and embedded prejudices. 

that being said, i do not question the sincerity and care motivating your thoughts and objections. 

so, ntcts, but has anyone seen "The Great Debaters"? I thought of Gretavo, our Harvard man....

 

 

 

petros's picture

Thanks Kate / Butchery of Islam and the new Crucades

Thanks Kate,

With great care and sensitivity, you wrote:
"...so many objectionable, maligning, malfeascant, and literally murderous
comments and actions have been directed towards muslims and arabs..this
has been acceptable!!?? look at the numbers, good man!"

You are of course, right. Thank you, your comment is an excellent opportunity to share some things here. And
just in case there's any misunderstandings about my own political
origins, I'd like to echo what you wrote with my own words.


The campaign of organized hatred and slaughter against Islam and the
Arab world, the present age of butchery and Criminal Crusade we are
witnessing are not only "condemnable": there's no other option left,
now, but to resist them by all and by any means necessary. I've been
openly committed to those principles, in public, all my life. It's easy
to see this in some of my writings below - please have a look if you like.

"Shoot down all their helicopters!!"
http://tinyurl.com/3hp5yp
or
http://web.archive.org/web/20040330131549/http://english.cyprusdada.band...

"Word from Lebanon"
and
"Two New Electronic Weapons of the Resistance, and a Strategic
development in the war
"
http://www.cyprusindymedia.org/english/a-word-from-lebanon.html
and here (without the gruesome graphics):
http://www.indymedia.org/pt/2006/07/842691.shtml

Plus, of course, not only in writing, but also in practice, in
person, through my participation and contributions to community
organizing on the basis of those principles.

Thanks again,
Petros Evdokas
petros@cyprus-org.net
http://petros-evdokas.cyprus-org.net/Another-sort-of-Introduction.html
___________

casseia's picture

The "Jewish" identity

has been giving me a lot of problems lately. It exists on the boundaries of some of the usual categories of identity -- not exactly a "race" (which is a category I reject anyway), certainly not a religion for the many non-practicing or even atheist people who consider themselves Jews -- or the one who practice another religion (there are a LOT of self-identified Jews in American Buddhism, so much so that they've given themselves a cute nickname that I will leave to the imagination lest it be grossly misinterpreted as a slur), not a nationality per se (another category I find pretty worthless), not an ethnicity, since many languages, cuisines, and so forth are embraced by people who call themselves Jewish...

What it clearly is, is a group that defines itself largely by exclusion. This is true of many, many groups -- and individuals: we define ourselves largely in reference to the Other who is NOT us because it seems a little easier to pin down than the slippery experience of Self.

It is a little different, though, as a religious identity/group in that it is relatively impermeable. Conversion is uncommon and not taken seriously by many Jews -- it doesn't really "make you Jewish" said a classmate of mine this last quarter who identifies as a Jew (and isn't practicing). Also, there have been a few crises in Israel when a group of people who really didn't "seem Jewish" claimed the right of return -- one example being the Beta Israel or "House of Israel" people who were evacuated from the Horn of Africa in the early 90s but then "turned out" to "not be Jewish enough" (possibly because they are Black?) and needed -- according to some religious authorities -- to be converted.

The bottom line is that the nature of the "Jewish" identity is an instant cognitive dissonance-inducer. To assume that everyone who claims the Jewish identity means the same things is insane, since we know that Jews are not a single ethnicity, race, nationality or that they even practice the "same" religion (eg the Beta Israel and other groups -- not to mention the atheists and Buddhists).

However, as much as I would like to just throw out the term altogether, it can't be done. There is *something* that underlies the ability or willingness of some humans to define themselves as "us" (Jews) and "them" (not-Jews). Joel Kovel, describing this "something" as status as "chosen by God" writes that

[T]o grant a particular group Chosen status is nonsense -- nonsense that may be colorful and forgiveable when the group in question is marginal, but becomes pernicious once that group links itself with the main body of power and gains control of a state... Nationalism is bad enough... Nationalism by divine decree -- whether Judaic, Islamic, Christian, or Hindu -- and exercised with violent state power, is a living nightmare.

Kovel wrote Overcoming Zionism and is Jewish by self-identification. (The quote is from page 6.)

Israel defined itself as a Jewish state. In doing so, they really screwed up the use of the term by people for whom it is a peaceful, non-chauvinistic religious/ethnic/WHATEVER identity term and those people have my sincere sympathy. If I was them, I would be seriously pissed off, as are Kovel and the Neturei Karta rabbis and undoubtedly scads of other people who do not support Israel.

gretavo's picture

check this out...

Just another example of how fascinating a study Judaism is. Really I wish people could see my focus on Jews in a more positive light--as a sociologist by training I have to say that Jews have one of the most fascinating cultures and history I have ever encountered--especially when studied in a non-whitewashed way!

Several local rabbis said addressing the situation is fairly simple.

"You have to define the problem in order to solve it," said Rabbi Susan Abramson of Temple Shalom Emeth in Burlington. Abramson, the longest-serving female rabbi in Massachusetts, is not shy about gender issues - she has authored what she says is the world's first comic book series with a female rabbi superhero, Rabbi Rocketpower - but she is now concerned about the role of men.

"Two or three years ago there were hardly any men on the temple board or as committee chairs, and we had a discussion that we need to get some men represented in the top layer of the synagogue, so we've brought them back," she said.

'Where have all the men gone?'

gretavo's picture

btw thanks for the Kovel quote, C455

I assume you finished the book? Isn't it simply amazing to read?

gretavo's picture

with apologies for the crappy scanning job

this is a must read--the prologue and first chapter of A Threat From Within - A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism: http://wtcdemolition.com/joz.pdf