WKJO filmmaker, Ty Rauber, Q & A
Ty Rauber Introduction
Submitted by Annoymouse on Fri, 2008-01-11 19:01.
Hello All,
My name is Ty Rauber. I am one of the filmmakers behind WKJO. I want to thank (Larry Horse) for sending me a link to this thread.
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/614
I typically try to refrain myself from commenting on WKJO threads, because I would prefer the film speak for itself. But, when someone suggests WKJO is disinfo - and in turn suggest Ryan and I are disinfo agents - I can't help but jump in and introduce myself. Not because I am hurt, or insulted by the insinuation, but because I feel bad for that person. Having wasted a good portion of my life worrying about the identity, associations and intents of others, I feel obligated to make every effort to clear up my own, in the hope of preventing others from making the same mistake on my behalf.
First, I speak for myself, not the film or Ryan, so any comment I make now is my own.
Regarding LIHOP versus MIHOP - I do not subscribe to this division. It suggests that the US Government is one body and mind capable of making only one action in one direction at any given time. It suggests that these concepts, LIHOP / MIHOP are mutually exclusive, when I believe both to be true. Some factions within the government made it happen, while others let it happen. Further, I think this semantic division has done a tremendous disservice to the 9-11 truth movement in that it has polarized the community into inaction.
I am of the opinion that controlled demolitions were used to bring down the towers and WTC7. If you watch the movie, I think you will find that it represents this opinion also. The reason controlled demolitions only gets a little bit of screen time is that in the end, it can't be proven either way - Unless of course you still had all the physical evidence. I am of the opinion that the HOW cannot be proven, especially now years later, while the WHO and WHY still can be. Finally, it is my opinion that the community's fascination with the HOW only serves as yet another distraction, further polarizing an already divided movement. Controlled demolitions, remote controlled airplanes, holograms, ufos - oh my. All the evidence is gone. That's like trying to solve a murder without a body. Good luck with that.
Regarding the drug connections - Oh man, where to even begin. It is my opinion that factions within the U.S. Intelligence and Industrial community control the global drug trade, for the purpose of propping up failing fortune 500 companies and a tanking U.S. Dollar, in addition to funding illicit wars outside of congressional approval. I think history has proven as much. Just a little research should lead you to the same conclusion.
Regarding WKJO being only seen by a few thousand people, you might want to throw a hundred in the middle of that. WKJO has been translated to six languages, uploaded to google a half dozen times. There are dozens of bit torrent files out there. There are a bunch of versions on Archive.org. And we sold a good deal of DVDs, even though it is available for free online.
I bring this up not to brag - I really could care less - but to outline a point. WKJO is the enigma of 9-11 videos, because it is the only movie that focuses on the WHO and WHY: the people, companies and financial trails. Further, it is the one movie that is wholly ignored by the movement leaders - primarily because of the belief that the characterizations cast truthers in a bad light. To those leaders I say, "If you can't laugh at yourself, how can you laugh at life?"
Some people just hate my artistic sensibilities - to those I say, "I can't blame you." I would probably hate it too if I hadn't made it. I mean come on, one actor in one room, playing multiple characters - who the hell would call that art. BUT - the transcripts are available. If you can't stand the visuals, read the transcript. No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Finally, while having not researched ******* and his opinions, I would like to suggest that your condemnation of him was a little rough. Having misspoke on more than a few occasions myself, I really appreciate tolerance and forgiveness. Further, I would suggest to ******* that rather digging a deeper hole for yourself, you should just apologize.
Just look at how much of this thread is now dedicated to bashing. Shame on you all. Flame wars get us no where. I hope with that, I can bring this thread back on a positive track.
I now leave myself open to your questions and comments. All I ask is that you remember that I am a real person, with real emotions, and real responsibilities. As soon as I feel I am wasting my time - which is incredibly valuable to me - I am gone. Capisce?
Thanks again (Larry Horse) for bringing this thread to my attention. I hope you don't come to regret it.
Best wishes to All,
Ty Rauber
Producer & Director
"Who Killed John O'Neill?"
http://wkjo.com
wkjo@deadartfilms.com
Hi Ty, thanks for joining the discussion
Congratulations on producing the WKJO film and for adding valuable research to the 9/11 truth efforts! I discovered your film through Richard Grove's 911synchronicity.com and enjoyed your interview on one of his podcasts last year. I've also turned a few other people on to your work. I hope you continue with your creative filmmaking endeavors.
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Just some quick first thoughts I want to express about some of your arguments and claims:
Ty said:
"Regarding LIHOP versus MIHOP - I do not subscribe to this division. It suggests that the US Government is one body and mind capable of making only one action in one direction at any given time. It suggests that these concepts, LIHOP / MIHOP are mutually exclusive, when I believe both to be true. Some factions within the government made it happen, while others let it happen."
This argument that some are making that "LIHOP is really MIHOP" or "it doesn't really matter and just serves to divide" is not logical and many of the people making these kinds of arguments, I've found, usually try to muddle the meanings and divert it away from the core issue which is this: Were there or were there not Evil Muslim Terrorists involved in 9/11? This is the original distinction behind the uses of these terms and is the issue that most honest truthers are relating to when they use these terms. Either 9/11 was a false flag op or it wasn't. If you accept that it was a false flag operation, you cannot at the same time accept LIHOP, or the position that we were attacked by Evil Muslim Terrorists.
Let's back up for a second and cut to the heart of the issue. There is an ongoing genocide operation against the Arab/Muslim population that has already claimed millions of innocent lives and seems set to claim many millions more thanks to the relentless demonization tactics which primarily consists of the manufacture of the Evil Muslim Terrorist Myth - something that has been methodically and deceptively constructed over several decades. Recent false flag operations, such as 9/11 and 7/7, have served to justify not only the previous slaughter of the millions of innocent Arab/Muslim lives since 1948, but has served to accelerate the body count many times over in the last few years.
Tracking down and prosecuting the real perpetrators and accessories to the crime of mass murder of the nearly 3000 American victims of the 9/11, at least 90% of which were the direct result of pre-planted explosives in the 3 WTC towers and not the result of the crashes of 2 sophisticated 767 planes that were or were not piloted by "19 low-tech fanatical muslims with plastic knives yada yada yada" (paleese!), is important but is secondary in my mind to the most important goal of the 9/11 Truth movement: stopping this genocide program. The 3000 Americans are already dead. The additional millions of innocent Arabs/Muslims slated to be genocided in the future are not yet dead.
So, if the objective facts can prove 9/11 was in fact a False Flag Operation and that the Evil Muslim Terrorist back story is nothing but a baseless myth, which I believe is the case, then it makes all the difference in the world!
Ty said:
"Further, I think this semantic division has done a tremendous disservice to the 9-11 truth movement in that it has polarized the community into inaction."
This makes absolutely no sense. For me, I was not prodded into serious action for 9/11 truth until I became aware of the MIHOP, physical, smoking gun evidence in 2005. Previously, all I had to go on were LIHOP 9/11 truth "leaders", such as Mike Ruppert, who even admitted that he was downplaying or even suppressing the evidence of controlled demolition and the missing Boeing at the Pentagon for the dubious justification that, "well, we can't prove it in court because their experts will lie". For almost 4 years, it is LIHOP that kept me and other people I know in a state of inaction, just the opposite of what you argue. LIHOP "evidence" is so wishy-washy and so easily explained away as "incompetence" that it keeps many people in a state of agnosticism. And the fact that LIHOP "evidence" points to a scenario that we know know didn't actually happen on 9/11, it is worse than useless. It is nothing but a limited hangout that does nothing to undercut the justification of the fraudulent War on Terror, which is just a PR name for the genocide program against Arabs/Muslims.
Ty said:
"The reason controlled demolitions only gets a little bit of screen time is that in the end, it can't be proven either way - Unless of course you still had all the physical evidence."
Not true. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth have proven that the existing evidence proves that the only explanation that conforms with the laws of physics for how the buildings collapsed is controlled demolition. Controlled demolition completely accounts for all of the evidence and contradicts none of the evidence. See ae911truth.org
Ty said:
"Finally, it is my opinion that the community's fascination with the HOW only serves as yet another distraction, further polarizing an already divided movement."
See the above points on LIHOP/MIHOP
Ty said:
"Controlled demolitions, remote controlled airplanes, holograms, ufos - oh my."
Why would you somehow imply that the evidence for controlled demolitions and remote controlled airplanes, which is pretty solid, is on par with holograms and ufos? Some serious logical fallacies here.
Ty said:
"All the evidence is gone."
Absolutely not true. See ae911truth.org. Video and other evidence is sufficient to prove what did and didn't happen to the WTC towers.
Ty said:
"Regarding the drug connections - Oh man, where to even begin. It is my opinion that factions within the U.S. Intelligence and Industrial community control the global drug trade, for the purpose of propping up failing fortune 500 companies and a tanking U.S. Dollar, in addition to funding illicit wars outside of congressional approval. I think history has proven as much. Just a little research should lead you to the same conclusion."
Not sure who you are arguing with. I don't remember anyone here disputing this.
Ty said:
"Just look at how much of this thread is now dedicated to bashing. Shame on you all. Flame wars get us no where."
Hmmm. I think this thread has opened up some pretty good discussions. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?
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I guess a final comment would be that you have completely failed to address the total lack of the Zionist angle. No mention of Silverstein, nor Lewis Eisenberg of the NY Port Authority? What gives. It's like your movie pretends that Zionism doesn't even exist. Have you read Lazlo Toth's essay, Wired for Terror: On the Trail of the “Men†Who Brought Down the Towers?
Thanks, Keenan
"For almost 4 years, it is LIHOP that kept me and other people I know in a state of inaction,"
LIHOP kept me in a state of inaction for just over four years. I realize, in retrospect, that I had been given Deception Dollars more than once during that time, and I looked 'em over and put them away. News of Steven Jones work, when I ran across it on another website, however, completely overturned my view of the whole matter and lit a fire under my ass.
Regarding CD evidence: claiming that the evidence is gone means that the speaker does not understand the video/photographic evidence, or the significance of other evidence, such as the NASA thermal imaging and FEMA's report of sulfidization. It is possible that the evidence that would convict individuals in a court of law is absent -- my sights are set higher than this as an outcome anyway.
...
"Finally, while having not researched ******** and his opinions, I would like to suggest that your condemnation of him was a little rough. Having misspoke on more than a few occasions myself..."
Thanks for sharing, but really, you shouldn't have, because as you admit, you don't know what you're talking about. Speaking as an admin, I'll point you to our mission statement and the fact that we have no tolerance for racism. ******* was given the opportunity to explain what he meant -- and maybe what he meant was not racist or perhaps he did misspeak-- and instead came back with bullshit meant to trivialize the issue.
keeping an open mind
Hi Ty -
Personally I loved the movie WKJO (which i found through winterpatriot's blog!) i guess i was able to identify with the character; the internal debates, the overwhelming obsession, the feeling of going insane, the ultimate conclusion with anger and conviction.
I appreciate your perspective on the LIHOP vs MIHOP debate. I'd have to agree with you that there are probably individuals within the gov't who allowed it to happen, in addition to the ones who actually went about the work of making it happen, along with complicit cohorts from around the globe.
As far as ****** goes, Sometimes I seriously wonder if the chemtrails are somehow making us all more angry, suspicious, and divided. Personally I've appreciated much of his contributions thus far, aside from a comment or 2 (hint: RACISM RACISM) and wish that everyone would just take a deep breath and try to understand where the other person is coming from. how are we going to love and understand our enemies, if we won't even take the time to understand the people who are supposed to be our friends?
Perhaps I'm wrong and ****** is "up to no good" but personally I'd rather see disinfo/ well-poisoning identified and responded to, than ignored and told "we won't think about that, or talk about that"
My opinion is that more on-topic info is a never a bad thing and threads devolving into unintelligent flame wars are. But I guess for all you know a man with no morals wearing a suit and paying my bills instructed me to type that. :)
respectfully,
T
That's really what we have tried to do
"Perhaps I'm wrong and ******** is "up to no good" but personally I'd rather see disinfo/ well-poisoning identified and responded to, than ignored and told "we won't think about that, or talk about that""
That's why I asked him what he meant -- and I would have enjoyed a good discussion on the issue (What does it mean to say 'an Anglo woman' in that context?). I'd say *******'s response pretty much shut that down -- imo, *he* was the person who did not want any further discussion of the issue.
agreed
that "RACISM" comment was out of line and not typical of ******'s posts. Some people are a little jumpy. Not just *******, all of us, sometimes.
> and I would have enjoyed a good discussion on the issue (What does it mean to say 'an Anglo woman' in that context?)
me too. i could interpret that as meaning 'a product of western culture' but then again semantics is a slippery slope. I think we find people of all political stripes with unintentional racist and/or sexist attitudes; they can't help the way they were brought up (or the culture they were raised in) and though it would be nice to shine a big powerful floodlight on them all in one night, we can only slowly bring them to the light.
good comments, Tahooey
[quote=Tahooey]
I appreciate your perspective on the LIHOP vs MIHOP debate. I'd have to agree with you that there are probably individuals within the gov't who allowed it to happen, in addition to the ones who actually went about the work of making it happen, along with complicit cohorts from around the globe.
[/quote]
I guess my question is, allowed WHAT to happen? Allowed Evil Muslim Terrorists to attack us? Or allowed people in our government (or key allied governments) to attack us? Without defining the terms clearly, the above use of LIHOP/MIHOP is meaningless
[quote=Tahooey]
As far as ******** goes, Sometimes I seriously wonder if the chemtrails are somehow making us all more angry, suspicious, and divided. Personally I've appreciated much of his contributions thus far, aside from a comment or 2 (hint: RACISM RACISM) and wish that everyone would just take a deep breath and try to understand where the other person is coming from. how are we going to love and understand our enemies, if we won't even take the time to understand the people who are supposed to be our friends?
Perhaps I'm wrong and ********* is "up to no good" but personally I'd rather see disinfo/ well-poisoning identified and responded to, than ignored and told "we won't think about that, or talk about that"
[/quote]
I also thought the Ban Hammer came down awfully fast on ********, though he doesn't appear to want to garner much sympathy based his subsequent comments I've seen.
But generally, I agree that disinfo/well-poisoning should be identified and responded to, and if some people are convinced that a certain article or item that was posted is disinfo, its better to have open discussion about it rather than using it as grounds for immediately identifying someone as a shill.
Edit: Why don't these quote commands work right?
Thanks Keenan
>allowed WHAT to happen?
well of course it's speculation. perhaps they knew it was a multinational intelligence agency or perhaps some thought it was 'evil muslims' but 'like pearl harbor we must allow this to happen for the greater good of the world.' It's all speculative territory as to who knew what.
I think we here all agree there was a major MIHOP component at work on 9/11, but I agree with the basic premise that LIHOP and MIHOP are not
mutually exclusive, and that in any event we shouldn't necessarily let it divide us from others with aligned goals.
Who "knew" what vs actual reality of What Happened
If I am to understand you correctly, you were theorizing that some of the insiders who knowingly participated in a lower level capacity, or "let things happen" while looking the other way, were duped into thinking that they were letting Arab Muslims attack us and didn't necessarily know the true identity of the attackers? In other words, some participants were duped into thinking they were involved in a LIHOP operation rather than a MIHOP operation?
Sure, I think that's a very reasonable assumption. Not sure I agree that it would therefore mean that 9/11 was in part a LIHOP operation, though. I think the original definition of MIHOP/LIHOP refers to the objective truth of who the perpetrators actually were, rather than referring to some lower level participant's subjective but incorrect assumption of who the other participants might have been.
I think that for the LIHOP/MIHOP terms to have any useful meaning at all, we should restrict them to this distinction of who the perpetrators were (in the objective reality sense).
LIHOP semantics
> In other words, some participants were duped into thinking they were involved in a LIHOP operation rather than a MIHOP operation?
> Sure, I think that's a very reasonable assumption.
I'm not making the assumption, just not ruling out the possibility. I try to keep my view of "what happened" (or what will happen; in anything, not just 9/11) a pie chart of probabilities. As I learn (or forget?) information, the probabilities grow and shrink accordingly... Other than that I exist, I'm not sure of ANYTHING. And I'm not afraid to admit it.
There's a particular scene in 'The Matrix' (maybe you've seen it?) where this guy Morpheus says to this guy Neo "What is real, how do you define real?" These questions are not unapplicable to our own existence, IMO
As far as what does 'LIHOP' mean, that's a question of semantics. Here particularly I was trying to understand what Ty meant. Primarily that the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. However, by your definition (limit to the actual "perpetrators") they are mutually exclusive. I can go with that but we shouldn't expect everyone to have that default definition. semantics is a bitch.
LIHOP / MIHOP
I don't see a difference between MIHOP and LIHOP...it's all MIHOP and those who got duped.
If you are in a position to stop something like a terrorist attack...and you let it go on as planned so you can reap the benefits...it's the same as Making It Happen. The case is even stronger when you consider that the people who are supposed to have 'let it happen' were in charge of making sure it didn't happen.
So I don't really see a difference. If I work at a bank as a security guard and I hear a group of robber barons discussing their plans to rob the bank and stash the cash behind the dumpster till dawn...and I choose to let them rob the place so I can scoop up the cash when they stash it...am I merely 'letting it happen' or am I helping to make it happen? I would say the latter.
Hmmm
Doesn't it matter whether we were attacked by Evil Muslim Terrorists, or whether we were attacked by our own government (with the help of a key allied government)? Again, I think the emphasis belongs in the word WHAT rather than the words MAKE/LET. And, I still think that most people associate LIHOP with "being attacked by Evil Muslim Terrorists (with some insiders looking the other way)", and MIHOP with "being attacked by our own state terrorists". I think that for most people that is a very important distinction.
I was assuming we were not attacked by evil muslims
Keenan,
I was going on the assumption that the Evil Muslim Terrorist was a fabrication.
Hi Jpass,
Hi Jpass,
I think any 911 theory that assumes evil Muslim terrorists do not exist or were not part of the attack is a MIHOP story.
Larry Silverstein is not part of the US government
Lewis Eisenberg was part of the New York government. I am quite frankly much more concerned with the demolition of the buildings on 9/11 than anything else. I want to know who made that happen. If anyone let it happen then that's shameful of course, but explosives did not just magically appear in the twin towers. Participation in the cover-up is of course a different story--a ton of people are guilty of covering the crimes, protecting those who made it happen.
Made what happen exactly? Made three buildings turn into piles of rubble killing thousands. Flying planes into two buildings. Causing some kind of explosion at the Pentagon. Each of these events was made to happen by a group of people. Every single one of those people needs to be brought to justice. And people have to be made to understand that arabs and muslims are innocent of the 9/11 crimes of which they stand accused and by which their slaughter by the tens of thousands has been justified.
thanks to larry horse and Ty Rauber
WKJO was a film that I was very impressed with on first viewing. I still find it to be a very well-crafted piece of art, and the film is certainly a font of many little-known facts. I admit I had to watch it again recently after realizing that my memory of it was not quite accurate with regards to controlled demolition, but I'm glad that others corrected me and even moreso that Ty decided to share his views with us. I, like Keenan, also think that Ty makes a mistake in asserting that CD cannot be proved either way. I think the preponderance of the evidence is more than clear, and while condemning someone like Larry Silverstein for murder may require a stronger case be made, holding him liable for gross negligence in allowing his buildings to be demolished would only require a preponderance of the evidence. The preponderance of the evidence is enough to at least have a real investigation and that we haven't had one say more than anything else about what the truth probably is (or what it definitely is not.)
My thoughts on the case presented in WKJO is that just because there are myriad sketchy connections between lots of people in power and people involved in sketchy things does not necessarily have any bearing on specific culpability in 9/11. In fact, pointing out what some bad elites have done is a way for other bad elites to shield themselves. Anyway, will elaborate later perhaps--food and football now calling...
5 Stars for WKJO!!!
Just wanted to let you all know that I think what Ryan Thurston and Ty Rauber at Dead Art Media have created in WKJO is a brilliant and inspirational way to take an exhaustive amount of verifiable info and place it in a playful/serious docudrama. If that DVD had tried to cover everything it did by someone speaking from behind a pulpit, it would not have quite the same effect memory-retention wise. What a way to convey so much quality, verifiable and absolutely pertinent information. You guys have really done your homework. FIVE STARS!! I have been researching 911 (like so many) for quite a while now and this production covers every crucial and documented talking point that should be covered. As to not spending much time on demolition or John O'Neill, who cares when you already know what happened to the towers and bldg7 from so many other sources, and you get so much crucial connect-the-dots coverage in the trade off. I will be trying to show it here in Spokane, WA soon, and then give a list of all the books and DVD's the audience would have to read and research to verify all that is carefully covered in WKJO. If people are unaware of what an important contribution WKJO is to their 911 library, they need to do some more homework on what has been going on for a very long time now. The 911 false flag event/pretext to war is simply business as usual for these guys. The only reason we in the public were that surprised is because we had been asleep in our dream of a safe and honorable America. If we don't wake up soon en mass we will be in a nightmare of a police state that no one will be able to call a conspiracy theory. But then it will be too late to write your bought and sold congressman/woman...
Chris Bowers
Spokane, WA